While the smaller after-class delves had acquainted them to delving, they were, ultimately, shallow representations of what delving truly was. The mechanics were the same, but the depth—and true challenges—were found in longer runs.
This trip, they would almost certainly be tracking down a boss. Maybe even they would find a stairway into the second floor. They weren’t so reckless they’d go far into it, if so, but maybe they’d try their hand at an encounter or two. Though difficult, a single second-floor fight shouldn’t be out of their reach.
Before they set off into the city proper and began their adventure, though, Natalie had things she needed to discuss with her team. It was a talk she wasn’t looking forward to, but, to quiet her nagging morality, she had to see it through.
She pulled them aside, away from the busy Tenet pathways, so they had some privacy. Jordan gave her a sympathetic look. She knew what Natalie intended to broach. They’d talked it through together. At least Natalie would have her support.
“So,” Natalie said. “Before we head out, there’s something I need to tell all of you.”
She addressed Ana and Liz more than Sofia. Sofia already knew, in broad strokes, about her class, and that was one of the things Natalie needed to clear the air about. Though, Sofia wasn’t aware of the theft—one of the other big topics.
Natalie took a deep breath, then said, “First, let me say that I’m sorry. I didn’t intend to keep it a secret forever, and after I explain, I hope you’ll agree that I had some justifications. But that doesn’t make it right, either.”
Liz and Sofia watched her curiously, eyebrows raising at the introduction. Ana, on the other hand, kept her typical blank face. Which was unfortunate. Natalie suspected she wouldn’t get many hints on what the stoic woman thought of this whole scenario. Liz, at least, wore her emotions on her sleeve, and Sofia, Natalie had experience reading.
“Remember our first delve?” Natalie asked. “How it ended? The trap.”
“You did steal a monster core,” Ana said.
Natalie winced. Ana was as sharp as always—and in being so, was ruining the build-up which could possibly have made her look less like a terrible teammate.
“I’m getting there,” Natalie said.
Liz’s eyes widened at the confession, and Sofia’s eyebrows raised further. Thankfully, neither looked immediately upset. They were willing to give her a chance to explain.
“I have a weird class,” Natalie said. “Let’s start with that. Like, really weird. For a few reasons. You know how paladins have aspects?”
Some of the surprise morphed to interest.
“Mine’s lust.” She winced at just stating it like that, but there wasn’t much more lead-up she could do. “And that ‘trap’ wasn’t really a trap. It was more of an encounter.”
Which was going to be even more awkward to explain.
“I’d rather not spell out the exact details,” Natalie said, face heating up, “but yeah. I felt I needed to tell you, since the dungeon reacts to everyone’s classes, and that’s the kind of info you might want. In case it pulls you into something similar. An encounter that … I don’t know, resonates with my aspect. Like it did for me.”
Liz and Sofia’s expressions turned into incredulity of what Natalie was implying. Even Ana seemed perplexed.
Natalie took a breath in, then rummaged out and held up proof for what she was saying: the monster core with the [Spirit of Infertility] stored inside it.
“I didn’t sneak it out because I was greedy,” Natalie said. “I just didn’t know how to explain it. And I didn’t want to talk about my class when we weren’t even officially teammates. But I get all of that’s just excuses.”
She winced.
“And I would still like to keep it. It’s, um, useful for my class. Which is why it was hand-delivered to me, I think.”
“So the mural from the puzzle room,” Ana said. “That was targeted toward you as much as me.”
Natalie found it odd, if relieving, that that was what Ana chose to focus on, instead of everything else. Sofia and Liz, she wasn’t so lucky. By their expressions, they were still digesting the implications of what an ‘encounter influenced by Natalie’s aspect’ meant.
“Maybe?” Natalie said. “At least partially, yeah. Probably.”
Sofia turned to Jordan. “You knew.”
“After the fact,” Jordan said. “But yes. She told me.”
Nobody seemed surprised at that.
Sofia rubbed her forehead. She looked back to Natalie, seeming bewildered. “Well,” she said. “I understand the why behind the subterfuge, at least, even if I’m not pleased about it.”
“I’d, um, not want to go shouting about it, either,” Liz laughed, bemused. A dusting of pink had settled onto her cheeks. She was clearly embarrassed by the reveal. “Sheesh. An encounter. You’re really not going to tell us what that means?”
Natalie’s own blush deepened. “I think you’ve put the basics together. I’d rather not get into the details.”
“If your class prompts such events from the dungeon,” Ana said, “then we need to know. Simply for tactical and strategic purposes, if nothing else. There’s no reason to dance around the topic. We’re all, ultimately, professionals.”
Natalie siphoned some resolve from the matter-of-fact way Ana stated it. And it was true. She’d been hoping to go easy on some of the stickier details, though.
“There were some vines,” Natalie said. “And, um, they needed to be taken care of.” This was so mortifying. “That’s enough to give you the picture. And I don’t think those encounters are going to involve you all, anyway.” She was far from certain on that. “The dungeon led me away to make it happen. And it was initiated by my choice. I mostly knew what I was getting into, before I got into it.” That was leaving out the full details behind the situation, but she had chosen to get into that mess, more or less. “So. Yeah.”
She’d picked to interact with the hole in the wall, and, while the vines hadn’t been perfectly polite, it still had been Natalie’s choice to throw herself into their writhing grip.
The clear-cut optionality could change, she knew, but hopefully it didn’t. While bizarre and embarrassing, the sex-aspects of the dungeon were fine, for a sense of the word, as long as she had a choice in the matter.
“Anyway,” Natalie said, cheeks blazing by this point. “Team vote, I guess. Can I keep this?” She held up the core. “And also, everyone knows what my class could do to the dungeon, now. So if that’s a deal breaker to wanting to team up … ?”
The team looked around at each other.
“Truthfully,” Ana said, “It sounds lucrative. I don’t mind you keeping that,” she nodded at the orb, “but if we receive a steady flow of such items? They’ll pay well. Do you expect to keep all of it?”
A part of Natalie did want to say she’d been the one to work for it, and that it was her class that produced the encounter and reward in the first place, but that wasn’t how delving splits were handled. The same reason resource gathering was split—partially—to the whole team.
Or it could work like that, but such matters were decided through a team discussion. Hence this.
And, really, for the trouble Natalie’s class presented, the team deserved a cut of the potential rewards for having to deal with it. Especially if it started roping them in, instead of involving Natalie alone.
“I’m hardly wanting to break up the team because of it,” Liz said. “But sheesh. Wow. I’m not sure what to say, really.”
“The feeling is mutual,” Natalie said.
“To all of us.” Sofia shook her head. “The idea doesn’t thrill me, but there’s benefits, too. As Ana said, there’s money to be made with … specialty items … like that.”
“One way to put it,” Natalie mumbled.
“And if it’s truly optional, or otherwise acts as a trap would, and can be avoided, then …” Sofia shrugged. “We’ll handle it as it comes.”
“And I’m intrigued by the details to your class,” Ana said. “What kinds of skills does an aspect of ‘lust’ come with? Why illusions?”
“Well,” Natalie said. “Those are my issues to deal with.”
“So there are issues?”
Natalie shrugged. Ana accepted the rejection, though her curiosity was plain.
“We should get going,” Sofia said. “Enlightening as that was, we still have a dungeon to clear.” She shook her head, still incredulous. “And some time to think would be nice, too, during the walk. It’s a lot to digest, Nat.”
Liz nodded in agreement, hair bouncing with the rapidness of the movement. She was the most visibly uncomfortable at the reveal. “Yep. Let’s get going. Thanks, uh, for telling us, Nat. I’m sure it was hard to. And you definitely could’ve gotten away with it.”
“Wouldn’t have been right,” Natalie said. Though she wished she could’ve spared herself from this conversation, regardless of the ethics of the situation.
Liz nodded, then, blush matching Natalie’s own, firmly set off toward the dungeon.
The rest of the team followed after her, and as they trailed down the path, headed for Aradon and the dungeon, Jordan leaned close and murmured, “That went well, don’t you think?”
All things considered, she guessed it did. And she was glad everything—the parts relevant to her team, at least—was out in the open. Those secrets weren’t the kind of thing she could have kept to herself and felt comfortable doing so with, especially since it might directly involve them in the future.
But seriously. So awkward.
Definitely awkward, but also necessary. I'm very happy the discussion went well.
It's also written nicely, it's believable and suites the character dynamics, though I assume there will be certain follow-ups from the rest of the party. Anna will definitely want to do "research"
@Cynical_Pasta I second that. Very well written. I particularly like Ana's thoughtful, scientific attitude towards the reveal. She adds an interesting dynamic to the group.
@Spaze Really? It feels to me like everything just got brushed under the rug and ignored. I'm honestly wondering if the direction of the story changed after the test dive chapter, or maybe the two already know about Nat's d*ck and that's all that matters to them right now...
It was also quite wierd how she tries to claim she didn't do it out of greed but immeadiately demands to keep all of the gathered resource to herself, and her internal monologue reveals she wants to take ALL of the lust related stuff in the future too. It's our birthday, precious...
@Golanth I don't know how you can think any of what's in your comment after reading this chapter. It's pretty clear.
Nothing got brushed under the rug or ignored. Nat brought up the important parts of her class and was very open about what she took, why she took it, and what she might be getting them into as a result of her class. She's still keeping aspects of her class to herself because that's the norm, for protection you keep the exact specifics of your class close to your chest.
She also absolutely did not demand to keep all the gathered resources to herself, or resolve to take all of them in the future. She certainly wants to have the things she worked for, especially given that they're uniquely helpful for her, but in both cases she recognizes that teams share loot and it needs to be discussed with everyone.
See, this guy gets it. Though I doubt arguing with this @Golanth fella will resolve anything.
@Spaze
She also absolutely did not demand to keep all the gathered resources to herself
The agrrement Natalie was apart of is 50% of a gathered resource stays with the gather, 50% to the team, yet when she finally admits she stole from them:
"And I would still like to keep it. It's, um, useful for my class. Which is why it was hand-delivered to me, I think."
"Anyway," Natalie said, cheeks blazing by this point. "Team vote, I guess. Can I keep this?"
Reminds me alot of Smeagol's arguement, good thing she's not greedy right?
Nothing got brushed under the rug or ignored.
No? "You stole from us? *blush* *blush*, that's okay" "we all got punished so that you could get laid? *blush* *blush*, that's okay" "you want to break the deal we made about loot? *blush* *blush,* thats okay".
Remember the first delve where Natalie was strugling so much that everyone was visibly worried about her? Remember each time we see the spars we're -shown- Nat is a big fish from a small pond surrounded by sharks in the ocean and even Natalie thought she had a poor chance of joining with Liz? Yet we're -told- "You're the best available people".
"Yep. Let's get going. Thanks, uh, for telling us, Nat. I'm sure it was hard to. And you definitely could've gotten away with it."
Interesting thing to say with how suspicioius Anna was after just the first time don't you think? It's like Liz and Anna have already found out that Natalie has a penis and nothing else currently matters to them...
@Cynical_Pasta I've now said my piece and will be leaving it where it is. Though I'll mention now that I agree with your original comment! I like how the reveal came about, as in the timing and how Nat approached her explanation, and I definitely agree that we'll be seeing more discussion from the team about things. In fact, I very much welcome it, given that it's been tabled in favor of everyone digesting things a bit more as well as letting them focus on the delve they're about to do.
Thank you @Spaze, glad you agree, I particularly look forward to seeing individual POV reactions, if I understand the author those would be probable. It'll be fun
Outside of a story it would be appropriate for her to lose at least 500% of what she stole and be monitored and suspected by her team in the future since she has proven to be a thief. If she doesn't agree (ideally she'd instead suggest this herself) quickly and wholeheartedly then she's in fact unapologetic (an apology that is unwilling to make up for the wrong committed is a false apology) and can be assumed to be willing to steal again, in which case the rest of them would refuse to team with her if they were thinking properly and had other real options. Instead no one cares much at all. Maybe everyone on the team would also steal in that situation so it's no big deal to them, but usually such people wouldn't let others freely steal from them just because they would steal from others. That's not how low quality people tend to act, after all.
@Daisuki-chan
in which case the rest of them would refuse to team with her if they were thinking properly and had other real options
Jordan and Sophia are team Nat and probably always will be, next chapter
confirms that Liz is thinking with her hormones and despirately wants to bang the 3 farmgirls,
That leaves Ana completely out voted in any group discussion and will probably decide the extra 'levy' is worth the connection she can build with the royal family...
...then she's in fact unapologetic and can be assumed to be willing to steal again
Back in Chapter 3.15 she's already internally monologued about stealing more and in this chapter she wants to keep what she stole and is hoping to get all lust items in the future, so really the only reason she's 'confessed' is so that she doesn't have to sneak.
What would be interesting would be if Liz gets the sexual encounter this run, would Nat let Liz keep all of it, or will she try to claim that too? Speaking of this run, so nice of Nat to warn the group of the possibility of sexual monsters and traps -after- they left so they couldn't make any preparations for it... Natalie has ALOT of room for a personal growth arc.
@Daisuki-chan @Golanth I think you’re both ignoring something Jordan said previously. Specifically, class specific loot vital to their build tends to be exempt from standard loot distribution. It was understandable that she hid her class details (considering that’s fairly standard even when it’s not embarrassing), she would likely have received the first Core full of potion if she had told them and she told them about it as soon as she had reason to remotely trust them. She also mentioned in previous chapters paying back the Core once she told them, but I haven’t gotten to the end of this delve yet so I can’t judge whether she followed up on that.
@AmphibiousAssassin The team would have to be informed to judge whether loot was class-specific and thus exempt. Deciding on your own just lets anyone do anything and doesn't make much sense as a standard. She could've also simply said it was class-specific without explaining more. It would be slightly embarrassing but that's it. If it's worth a lot then it's worth doing that. If it's not worth a lot then she could offer to buy it off the team. Just hiding it and taking it according to your lone self-serving judgement isn't reasonable.
@Daisuki-chan I’m not claiming it was *reasonable*. I’m claiming that there are mitigating circumstances (both in terms of loot distribution and cultural norms around class details) that make it less severe than stealing any arbitrary loot. Also, no, she couldn’t have shown it to them, claimed it was class specific and then not explained without basically giving the same amount of information as she does here but worse because they’d have to fill in the gaps like “in what way is infertility potion class specific” or “where the f*ck did you find this weird and specific loot” on their own. Not particularly related to the above points but in response to earlier discussion condemning her for wanting to keep all the loot, wouldn’t you? A *part* of her wanted to keep it and, within two paragraphs she came to the decision that such an urge was both against standard policy and would be unfair to her party. Having a loot gremlin in her mind is distinct from actually planning to steal stuff again.
@AmphibiousAssassin She did steal it, ruining Ana's count of the cores. She reconsidered upon a future party meeting, but it just wasn't a very big deal for the party in the end for whatever reason. Anyway, having a gremlin in her mind isn't the same as actually stealing, and whether or not she plans to steal again is irrelevant to what the party could think. They don't know anything beyond her stealing and then mentioning it later (but still keeping what she stole and expecting just that rather than expecting to make up for anything). The reason I suggested she give up the item as well as extra value and that she ought to suggest this herself is that it shows real "remorse" for stealing and imposes gravity on the situation, making it actually bad to steal rather than just "oops but I'm keeping the stuff" (presumably if she didn't want to be in that party in the end she'd simply never mention the theft, too, to avoid mentioning or implying class details, which further speaks to her not minding stealing). If she accepted or ideally proposed this she'd be a lot more trustworthy in real life to real people than what she did in the story. The party in the story of course accepts that she doesn't mean to steal again like you're thinking, but whatever. Normally such a custom would be very important and wouldn't be treated so casually. But that's how it would "realistically" be. I guess the party just all fell for her quickly or whatever. ;p
@Daisuki-chan She didn’t reconsider upon a future meeting. She explicitly planned to confess and make up for it once the party was made official and she could trust them with more details about her class. I still haven’t gotten far enough to determine if she/the author forgot about the stated intent to pay it (or at least the beast core she used to store it) back, admittedly. And while it wasn’t reasonable for her to steal it in the first place (putting aside the “rock and a hard place” of it also not being reasonable/smart for her to spill her guts at the time) it *is* reasonable that she should keep it given standard loot distribution practice, having effectively taken something she would have been given anyway, based on their reactions to her class and the item, had they been more informed about her class. And we have no way of knowing what she would have done if she didn’t want the group to become official because it was established that she did very early on. Perhaps she would have given Liz and Ana a core from her future delves or some such. While her actions weren’t those of a moral paragon, her reasoning for keeping it secret was understandable for the cultural context and her right to have it was established. Combined with the fact that she revealed the deception as soon as was practical, it’s not implausible that the others would react less severely than if she, I don’t know, stole a Legendary Bow of Accuracy and didn’t tell anyone until she got caught. Basically, if you’re arguing that what should have been this:
stole from the party +50 anger and suspicion (net A&S: 50 - ‘liar and thief’)
was treated like this:
stole from the party +50 anger and suspicion (-50 anger and suspicion because she’s hot) (net A&S: 0 - ‘new party mate’)
I’m arguing that it was actually
stole from the party +50 anger and suspicion (-20 because it was something she would have been given anyway) (-20 because she willingly came clean about it) (net A&S: 10 - ‘impulsive and potentially deceptive, deal with that later’)
@AmphibiousAssassin The party was made official at that future meeting, was it not? If she found another party, well, no need to let those not worthy of being in your party (or too stuck up to want you in theirs) know you stole from them, right? Saying we don't know...I don't know about that, realistically (the author can write anything so whatever, but I'm pretending the characters have somewhat realistic motivations by default; not doing this makes absolutely any possible character action 100% logical+believable and is uninteresting). If you're willing to lie and steal to defend your class info (even just vague info that people can't really do anything with but which is merely embarrassing) I don't see why you'd go out of your way to confess to people that have no reason to forgive you, given that they aren't getting you in their party (this was a forced package deal, essentially...they couldn't have her in the party and not forgive her so it's potentially manipulative to only mention it once you've decided you want them in your party). You decided what you care about, and it's not not stealing.
The "cultural context" included revealing loot to the party instead of stealing what you feel like keeping and she didn't care about that at the time, so the "cultural context" is not a good defense for her keeping class info secret at the time. If the info was so precious you could just offer to buy the item or just let it go, trusting the dungeon to give more loot later. But she wanted it all. ;p Anyway, did she really reveal it "as soon as was practical"? She could've tried to meet with the individuals she stole from earlier if she cared more about it. And she could've decided to reveal it before deciding that it was important to reveal it to them at the time they were set to become her party. I admit it's been a while since I read this, but the timing and contrition were both suspect at the time of reading, and not to just me. But it's fine, it's just some random flaw in a character (and weird reactions from all the other involved characters). I just wouldn't accept this in real life.
I don't really care that she "would've" been allowed to keep it. Once you take that choice away from your party it's just a full theft like if she stole any random thing. The whole point of revealing stuff before letting the needy or appropriate people keep it is so the party can judge this. If you decide by yourself that you deserve whatever then it should be treated as if the party fully and unequivocally disagreed. Thus making it basic theft. It shouldn't be easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. She should have to more than make it up to them (such that she ends up a clear loser from this), but it's just unimportant. Oh well.
Yes, it's less bad than if she just waited to be caught. But she also didn't, by reasonable real-world standards, actually show contrition or any desire to make restitution or do anything that would make it less attractive to do this again if it fancies her (and her being forgiven so casually only makes it more attractive, realistically (but the author can write whatever)). I suggested what more she could've done but she did the bare minimum ("I took it but I deserve it, and I hope that's okay, and it has to be okay if we're going to be a party") and was right to expect that it was no big deal in the story's world for whatever reason. With her level of apology I would always consider her a possible thief in the future, but the rest of the party didn't mind it much and wanted nothing beyond the minimum she gave them.
I don't see the "net A&S: 10" in the story so far. It seems simply over with once she admitted it and formed the party. So it kind of does imply that it's more of a -50 for whatever reason than your final set of modifiers. The "-20 because it was something she would have been given anyway" again, in real life, would not fly at all. It should be -0 because the party needs to decide. The decision itself was also stolen from them, and this should be VERY hard to accept if you want a party of non-thieves. But that's not what her party cares about, for whatever reason. It's just a story and doesn't have to make perfect sense so whatever. ;p But I reject that it does make perfect sense as is.
@Daisuki-chan my point was that she didn’t *want* to find another party and as such she never even considered what she would do if she did, so our ability to predict such a scenario is limited. Your interpretation of her character is that she’d basically just say “sucks to suck, lol” and move on with a clean conscience, my interpretation says different, and we have no textual sources to confirm or deny either interpretation because the possibility of joining another group never crossed her mind. Also, I’ve already pointed out the weird case of being stuck in a situation where the three cultural assumptions of “1. you get to keep necessary loot without it effecting other loot distribution; 2. parties should decide on loot distribution collaboratively and 3. don’t share your class information unless necessary and to people you trust” were in conflict because how often does a party still in their trial period find class specific loot that touches on sensitive information in such a matter that none of the other prospective party members notice it. And I patently disagree with the supposition that “I would have gotten it anyway” wouldn’t matter in the real world, given that such has been a mitigating factor in several irl conflicts I’ve been involved in. She began by saying “hey, I lied/stole and while I hope you’ll find my justifications for doing so understandable, that doesn’t make it okay” and, after hearing her justifications they replied “your justifications are, in fact, understandable and the loss of 1/16th of our fungible profit was a minor enough transgression that, given my general impression of your character and the fact that you came clean yourself, I’m not going to call it a dealbreaker.” I’d admittedly have preferred if we went into more detail on loot distribution after this delve and established that she did, in fact, take a hit to her share to make up for it, but based on her previously stated intent to do so, I’m willing to give the benefit of the doubt.
@AmphibiousAssassin I'm saying that's a realistic expectation for a person who does such a thing and acts like that afterwards, and that the party, if realistic, would have more feelings at least adjacent to that. I'm not saying the author will write her to be that way, but whether that's good or bad writing or good or bad for the story varies per reader.
I've mentioned over and over that "sharing her info" was just embarrassing and nothing more. It didn't include sharing the existence of her penis (nor any other class specifics that are of much interest or particularly possible to exploit), as no one but Jordan knew about that until later and even now Ana doesn't know (that the readers know of, at least), so the "class info" is basically "my class is slutty". This is not reasonable to steal the party's choice of item assignment and then steal party loot over. The information is just not sensitive enough. But whatever, opinions vary on stealing and this is a wish fulfillment story of sorts.
"I would've gotten it anyway" shouldn't fly because it spits in the face of the whole concept of the party deciding the loot. Anyone can just be "sure" they "deserve" whatever loot if this is allowed, so it naturally wouldn't be in a realistic situation. It should count for zero no matter how much you personally empathize with or forgive the main character. This is a question of justice and ethics, not empathy, as the former is what would work on a consistent basis for groups of near strangers, so it would realistically be a more normal standard than the "it's okay, dear" she got in the story.
They didn't lose 1/16th of their profit...you must just be counting the cores. Which again assumes that she automatically and categorically owned the main thing she stole without consulting the party (something I would accept if it was "bound" to her in some manner, particularly some extreme manner that would result in a loss of life or body parts if removed, but this was not the case), which is not realistically an acceptable standard nor was it the norm in the story. And again her protected "class info" is just "slutty class".
I understand giving the main character the benefit of the doubt. Readers want to continue enjoying the main character enough to continue the story. I just don't think it (her level of remorse or the party's weak reaction) would make much sense in real life. Again, the author can write her and the party however, but it is uninteresting to excuse whatever under that standard as it means that absolutely anything anyone does is 100% acceptable because the author says so. You can continue to give her the benefit of the doubt. I wouldn't be surprised if you're right (in that the author doesn't have her have sticky fingers again), but that doesn't make the situation highly realistic or appealing to me.
@Daisuki-chan I’m gonna ignore the ethical and cultural arguments since it’s been made clear that we simply have differing axiomatic assumptions, but I still have to disagree with the realism argument. I have both heard of and experienced situations analogous to this series of events. Whether or not "I would've gotten it anyway" *shouldn't* fly is a question of philosophy, not realism, because that being a mitigating factor does in fact happen in real life. So your issue seems to be that the characters’ moral calculus differs from your own, when such differences are fairly commonplace. From a realism perspective you personally would have reacted differently but there are very much people who would have reacted as the characters did.
@AmphibiousAssassin Extremely strange things happen in real life, and whatever explanation there is for those things is often not knowable in these cases. A story is not considered realistic merely for meeting that standard (which I would say is equivalent to the "the author can write anything and it's 100% acceptable" standard I've mentioned as uninteresting), but for making what happens make sense somehow. The way it happened here just kind of poofed the problem out of existence and very many adults (or "young adults" if you don't consider the story characters adults) wouldn't accept that in real life, especially wholeheartedly and immediately. I understand that readers are going to be okay with it in many cases, though. I've seen much worse in other stories.
I think in real life in some of the similar cases you might be imagining people simply tolerated things because they had no known way to improve things, but they'd often still have some thoughts or feelings similar to some things I brought up. In this story everyone seems 100% fine with it. Unlike in real life, it's possible to give every character a voice just by writing their thoughts into the story even if they're tolerating things because they can't do any better. So there naturally at least can be a higher standard for what's "realistic" in a story when compared to having to accept that any random thing happens with unknown causes and details in real life.
Interesting debate. Was actually a good read.