Sora passed a few plates as they took turns moving around the platters, loading up on food. She noticed Wendy trying to hide her glare, gaze darting to Kari every so often. The Fenris Wolf must have seen, but ate quietly, keeping to herself.
Ashley and Alice weren’t touching the food they’d prepared, choosing instead to smile at the others as they helped themselves.
“So,” Mary hummed, eyeing the unusual purple vegetable mix that was passed to her. “What—are all of these dishes? I mean, those look like purple eggs and ham.”
“Purple eggs and ham,” Nathan chuckled.
“For real,” Ashley giggled. “It tastes surprisingly similar, but there’s this tang I can’t place. They have some strange ingredients here, too; Alice was giving me a rundown.”
“What—color are your eggs?” Liz asked, suppressing a yawn. A smirk curved her lips as she helped herself to a fairly large portion, “Yellow?”
“Yes, actually,” Mary smiled.
“Weird.”
After a moment, Mary glanced around as they slowly began eating and cleared her throat. “I suppose I’ll be the one to ask. I don’t want to interrupt you just as you started eating, but … what have you decided, Sora?”
Sora swallowed the purple eggs she’d just taken a bite of; it did taste a little more potent than what she was used to. Taking a sip of juice, she paused; it reminded her of a mix between apples and oranges.
Lying her utensils across her plate, she released a long sigh; everyone eyed her expectantly with their heads over their meals as they ate. “To be honest, I ended up actually sleeping last night—heh, I know, shocker. My aunt said I needed to rest my Spiritual Network, but she said some things yesterday that stuck with me.”
Looking for the right words, she shifted her tails a little across her lap, trying to keep it away from her food. “I think … I want to be honest with them, and if they ask for help, I don’t want to deny them. That being said, I don’t know how to fix this place … I don’t know nearly enough. I’m afraid I could make things worse for them if I tried.
“I know the people here are hurting,” she whispered, vision moving to Alice and Liz, “I don’t know how to help all of you. Maybe I’ll change my mind as things go on, but for right now, I don’t plan on making this public knowledge. I’ll tell Mimi what I’ve done, and see what she wants to do.”
She licked her lips nervously as the two Vulpes looked away. “I promise that I’ll help both of you however I can, and Kari has two Vulpes she’s asked me to help … I can’t stretch myself too thin, though, and I don’t really want to shout it from the rooftops. We just—we have a lot on our plate—heh, no pun intended—and we’re a small group … There’s no way I can fix every Vulpes in this entire place.”
“I was wondering about that,” Liz mumbled, drawing everyone’s gaze. “You’re supposed to be a Goddess, right? You don’t have the power to do what The Council does, though?”
“She’s only sixteen years old,” Mary said in her defense. “She’s only known she’s a Founder for … what, two weeks?”
“Yeah, it’s impressive she’s been able to do as much as she has,” Nathan sighed.
“What about Emilia? Is she stronger than Sora?” Liz pressed.
Emilia tensed, choking a bit. “N-No way! I—I don’t know how to do anything…” She mumbled, ears falling a tad.
Sora’s mouth drew in as she read Liz’s Core, trying to understand her question; the others looked a little troubled as she watched Liz’s confused expression. “Ah,” Sora’s tail twitched as her head dropped to the back of her chair. “You want to know how you’ll develop compared to us.”
“I mean … I just,” Liz sat back, ears laid back as she looked off to the side, “I just don’t really want to go into the fields today, and—and I don’t know what I should do. I was thinking—I don’t know—maybe I could just go explore the far forest. I’ve never been that far … I’ve never felt like this before.”
Alice rubbed Liz’s left arm, ears as flat as her friend’s. “It might seem strange to all of you—maybe—but you see, for over a century, we’ve been doing the same things every day, and—and I understand how Liz feels. It’s just a little stressful … this is the first time we’ve ever felt like not working.”
Ashley giggled. “What that must feel like … to be motivated to do something all the time—well, manipulated to do something, I suppose—oof, yeah, maybe not … It sound less appealing now.”
“I don’t know—I really enjoyed my work,” Nathan said between bites.
“You were a workaholic, though,” Sora forced a smile before it fell; Kari finished her plate, got up, and moved to take it to the kitchen. “Kari?”
She stopped, turning with a questioning frown.
“Umm—where are you going?”
Kari’s left eyebrow lifted and a reluctant sigh blew through her lips. “I just feel like going on another walk … I have some things to think about. Why … is there something you need?”
Sora shook her head, smile returning; she seemed troubled about something. “No, sorry; I was just curious.”
“Have a good walk,” Ashley said, waving her goodbye.
“Yeah,” Kari whispered, staring down at her plate. “I’ll wash my dish and come back later … Thanks again, Sora.” Turning away, she entered the kitchen.
Sora released a heavy breath, turning back to the group, catching Wendy’s glare at the closing door before her friend rolled her eyes.
Eyia cleared her throat. “Sister, has something changed with your relationship with the wolf?”
She nodded cheerily, trying to stay positive. “Yes, we’re friends now.”
“Wow,” Mary muttered, brow creased as she looked back at the door. “You…”
“I can tell you the story later,” Sora cut in. “Anyways, I’m actually pretty hungry … well, I don’t need to eat, but it tastes good,” she chuckled. “Thanks, Ashley, Alice.”
Ashley folded her arms. “Don’t mention it; stress cooking helps ease my nerves … the kids always love it when I have a deadline or big meeting coming up.” A fond, reminiscent look crossed her eyes while thinking about her family.
Eyia finished the food she was eating and cleared her throat, “I’m excited to meet them.”
“I’m sure they’d love to meet you too, Eyia,” Ashley’s laugh turned nervous. “Just—they’re kids, and not Asgardian gods … Be gentle—please.”
“Of course,” Eyia nodded.
Jin cleared her throat after drinking some juice, a grin in place. “Translation—we’ll start with tactical movement.”
“That would be a good place to start,” Eyia hummed. “I would often sneak into Dothaed’s hole; the mad dwarf had a short-lived memory. It was quite easy to steal his food during the winters.”
Ashley’s expression was forced at this point. “As fascinating as that is … Please, nothing dangerous—just playing.”
“Of course, we’ll have great fun!” Eyia promised, likely not understanding what Ashley’s understanding of play was.
Jin breathed through her teeth, glancing off to the side with a slight shake of her head, and Mary giggled. “I think fun translates as training to Eyia.”
The others gave solemn nods, causing Eyia to glance around in utter confusion.
“I—do not understand the atmosphere. Is training not fun for you?”
Nathan leaned back with a low grunt. “Yeah, it can be. I enjoyed some of the paintball training exercises the department would set up. By the way, Eyia, are dwarfs small?”
Eyia’s brow furrowed. “Not the ones I have battled. Are they small in the Human Realm?”
“Well, my image’s shattered,” Nathan muttered, “and nope, no dwarfs in the Human Realm … well, depends … I guess there are human dwarfs,” he muttered, scratching his temple.
Kari opened the kitchen door, bringing a stop to the conversation; she was empty handed. Without making eye contact, she moved to the exit, eyes low, as if deep in thought.
“Bye,” Sora called out.
She turned and waved, a small forced smile in place before she disappeared through the front door, shutting it behind her.
“Human—dwarfs?” Eyia seemed utterly perplexed at the notion. “The dwarfs I am aware of are muscular, misshapen creatures; they are about the same size as the humans I have seen—similar to Nathan.”
The man flinched, choking a bit on his juice. “Similar to—misshapen creatures—what?”
“Mmhm!” Eyia seemed utterly oblivious to the burn, nodding emphatically. “They are quite hideous to look upon and have diverse powers. The dwarfs are quite taken by the opposite gender of different races—including Asgardian and human—so you must be careful around them.”
Her expression darkened, giving Nathan a concerned look that made everyone suppress laughter around the table. “The females seek affection from powerful males of other races, and the males chase beautiful women to force themselves on them. I slew the fourteen dwarfs on the island before leaving.”
Jin grimaced, her nose twisting. “They were a debauched lot … Pretty perverted, and had quite the colorful language; I had to hold myself back a few times. I almost killed them.”
“That doesn’t sound very appealing,” Alice mumbled. “Is that normal?”
“Killing things that I don’t like or insult me? Sure. Dwarfs foul mouths? Yup,” Jin grunted, grabbing one of the meat dishes and digging in.
Eyia’s eyes sparkled innocently. “I could teach you where their major arteries are! Oh, but what are these human dwarfs, though?”
Everyone turned to Nathan, causing the man to groan. “I should have kept my mouth shut … It’s, eh, a congenital disability … Really small humans—they call themselves dwarfs, midgets, or little people … It’s a touchy subject and depends on the person.”
“Why? Dwarfs may be smaller than gods, but they are not children. Do you call children such things too? I do not think children are misshapen, degenerate, ugly creatures.”
Githa giggled on the couch, and Jin smirked, waiting for Nathan to respond as the others quickly shoved food in their mouths.
“Uh,” Nathan breathed in through his teeth before shooting it out; he scratched his scalp, glancing around to find an answer. “We don’t—I mean kids aren’t the same thing as dwarfs…”
“Yes, that is why I am confused,” Eyia pressed.
“You’re—conflating little people—with children … They’re different. Little people are adult humans that—that are just really small.”
“Oh—I see … How strange. I have never seen one of your little people,” Eyia said with a thoughtful expression. “I have a difficult time imagining how they would look.”
Nathan cleared his throat. “So … what other creatures were on that, umm, island?”
Sora wiped her mouth with the cloth next to her plate, getting up as she finished. “Alright, Ashley, I’ll just clean up, and we can go.”
“Please, don’t worry about it,” Alice said, rising to her feet. “I’ll get your dish.”
“Ah, sister,” Eyia said, turning away from her conversation with Nathan. “I will join you after finishing my meal and discussing this topic with Nathan. I wish to examine the images on the walls, and I look forward to meeting your family, Ashley.”
Nathan’s head drooped at the curiosity in her tone. “Please, no more…”
Ashley took a deep breath as she scooted back, rubbing her thighs. “Okay.” Her fingers were trembling as she used the armrests to lift herself. “I don’t know why I’m so nervous,” she chuckled.
Everyone wore an encouraging smile, and she followed Sora out.
“Thanks for cooking and cleaning up my plate, Alice,” Sora called back, shutting the door behind Ashley.
She took the lead, Ashley following behind, but paused a moment as she caught a scent on the breeze, flowing from the opposite direction. Glancing back, her vision shifted between a few humans and Vulpes, and her focus centered on Olivia.
Olivia was wearing a simple long-sleeve dress with two blue ribbons on her left wrist, and beside her was a three-tailed Vulpes she’d seen at the meeting with Mimi—this Vulpes had three blue ribbons tied to her forearm—they were heading right for them.
Ashley turned, brow creasing with worry as she caught sight of the pair. “Is it already time to meet Mimi?” She whispered.
Both Vulpes shook their heads, picking up their pace to close the distance, and the new Vulpes spoke first. “I apologize, Sora, but Mimi is feeling a little worse for wear this morning. Is it possible to postpone the gathering until later tonight?”
“Of course,” Sora breathed a sigh of relief. “I’m a little busy this morning, as well.”
“Is something wrong?” Olivia asked, glancing between them with a slight frown.
Sora pursed her lips to the side, vision darting to Ashley; she was shifting nervously. Should I tell them? I don’t want to lie … it could cause a lot of problems later, though.
“I know this might seem, mmh, tough to swallow,” Ashley’s hands tightened around her stomach as she looked down. “I—I want to be as open as possible,” Sora continued. “We’re going to get Ashley’s husband and kids; I understand you don’t know what a husband is, and children are pups.”
“I—see,” the new Vulpes whispered, turning to stare back the way they’d come with a slightly nervous edge. “Umm—might I join you? I’d like to understand—just a little, about how you bypass the gate … If that is alright with you.”
Sora hesitated for a second but nodded. “I—completely understand. I have no objections … Ashley?”
Ashley shook her head, her throat dry. “No—I have no objections, either.”
The Vulpes breathed a relieved sigh. “Thank you, Sora, and you don’t prefer any other name—do you?”
She was a little taken aback by her reluctance. “No, umm, no … Sora’s my name. Yeah, that will work just fine. Eh, what’s your name?”
The woman winced, and Sora noticed her ears twitch as her tails moved to twist around each other, but she caught herself; tails spreading out again, she took a quick breath before saying, “Gurakuqi, Lady Sora; I am second to Lady Mimi.”
“Umm—Sora’s fine … Lady makes me think of my aunt,” she chuckled.
“Ah—I have offended you,” she mumbled, ears drooping further.
“No, not at all!” Sora forced a smile. “I’m just … not really—my aunt’s elegance makes it natural for me to see people calling her lady, but me … I’m just a bumbling teenager.”
Both Olivia and Gurakuqi’s eyebrows rose as they glanced at each other. “That … I have not heard anyone speak about themselves in such a way before. It is … unfamiliar.” Olivia said, choosing her words carefully.
“It’s fine. Like I said, Sora’s my name, so that will do.”
“Very well. Thank you, Sora.” Turning to Olivia, Gurakuqi’s lips curved into a smile that was obviously fake. “Please take care of Lady Mimi in my absence.”
“Of course,” Olivia said, bowing slightly. “I will take my leave.” At their nod, she turned and walked away, tails swaying with her exit.
Sora raised her eyebrows. “Well—should we get going?”
“Yes, please, I don’t wish to interrupt … just observe.”
“Okay.”
They walked back the way they’d come, moving along the main road since she didn’t know how else to get to the proper path back to the Red Gate. She noticed their dresses were gathering a lot of attention, and it seemed Gurakuqi couldn’t keep her eyes off her.
“Is—something wrong with our clothes?”
Gurakuqi gave a start, quickly turning away. “Oh, no—no, they’re just—they’re lovely. I have not seen such quality items … The only thing I can compare it to is—is The Council,” she whispered.
“Well, the humans beyond the Red Gate have advanced in a lot of ways,” Sora chuckled. “They’ve made big improvements to clothing over the ages.”
Gurakuqi’s eyes widened. “The humans—they give you gifts?”
Sora hissed, glancing at Ashley as she silently followed beside her, eyes downcast. She could smell her trepidation from the chemicals her body released. “Humans do give gifts to those they love … I made these last night, though.”
“You—made them? Those entire—the entire thing—in one night?” She asked in disbelief.
“Oh, I used my magic, of course,” Sora laughed it off. “I made several dozen outfits; no one had any clothes, and they were torn or could barely pass as clothing. I just thought it would be nice if everyone had something of their own to wear.”
“That’s really thoughtful,” Gurakuqi mumbled. “I’ve never—that would have been a precious gift to receive, and you made clothing like those for—for everyone? Such delicate blue dresses … and those strange shoes?”
“Not a dress like mine,” Sora smirked, imagining Nathan in the outfit with a smirk. “No, I gave them a lot of options … Well, I guess I can just say magic. I gave them the liberty to choose out of every piece of clothing that I’ve owned or thought about buying.”
“I never could have imagined such a custom existed,” she whispered. “What is … buying?” she asked, testing the word on her tongue.
“Umm—I give up something of value to get something we both believe is a worthy equivalent. It’s kind of like an exchange of goods.”
“I see…” Gurakuqi fell as silent as Ashley when they made it to the edge of town, walking along the road that led up to the Red Gate.
Sora took a deep breath to smell the sweet scent of the fruit on the trees around them. The human and Vulpes hadn’t begun working the fields, so the further they moved toward the forest, the quieter it got.
She smiled as she glanced around the fields. “Ashley.”
“Huh—what was that?” She asked, pulling back her brushed out blonde locks to look at her.
“I didn’t expect you to be this nervous. What’s going on?”
“It’s—this is just a big change. I’m worried about the kids … What if they suddenly hate me? What if Eyia’s too rough? What if this wasn’t the right choice, mmh … What if—what if Brandan doesn’t…”
“Hey, that’s a lot of whats! You gotta calm down.” Sora soothed. “You saw how upset your children were … they missed you to death.”
“Yeah … I know … The knowledge is up here, heh-he, but … mmh, it’s just hard emotionally…”
They fell back into silence, and eventually, they made it to the forest. The scene brought back memories of their first entrance to the realm with Rayla and Luna. The sounds of birds and insects escalated, and Sora did her best to keep a strong face, but she was beginning to worry herself.
Inari said it’d be fine, but … if Bathin’s there. Why wouldn’t he be? She said she’d rather we fight the Vulpes Council than this guy that teamed up with Bathin. Why don’t you ever tell me everything! She fumed.
“Because information is important,” her aunt answered slyly.
There you are! Okay, whatever, but what did you do with Kari? You wanted to show her something, right?
“Indeed. Kari needs a kick in the tail to get her moving. You realized how broken she is? Her declaration that she’d die if you did … You’ve given her a line, and if that snaps, she’ll drop into a place few have returned from, and never the same. That isn’t healthy, though. What we need to do is strengthen her, to give her some of her confidence back.”
I can see that … I feel like I need to be there for everyone, but there’s only one of me. I mean, you could help me with Intellectual Constructs, but I doubt that’s the answer. Each person really needs personal attention.
“You are far, far from being able to craft Intelligent Constructs, Darling. How about this … You were talking about an exchange with Gurakuqi … What is the most expensive thing?”
Time?
“Good guess, but time is only a small portion of a larger root. Experience, Sora … you can have a ton of time but gain little experience. Experience is costly and requires many attributes that can fortify or shatter someone. They can be easy, tough, painful, joyful, and repugnant … all at the same time. It is the hardest thing taught, and the most valuable thing we can impart.”
I haven’t thought about it like that.
“You can seriously damage someone by robbing them of experience … that is one of the reasons why ethical discussions on murder can be so vehement. Experience is not just feelings either, but so much more; it’s like conflating knowledge, understanding, and wisdom … they are not the same thing.”
What should I do? Am I robbing this realm of experience by offering them something more?
“It’s a complicated question that you’ll need to discover yourself, but you can be thankful that this energy coming from the earth destroyed the harmful viruses; it has its good, although its harm far outweighs its benefits.
“Cultures mix and match; it’s just natural for people to explore, and when that happens, death can occur due to diseases, misunderstandings, greed, and envy. Is death inherently evil because it’s a natural process, though? No. Can it be tragic? Yes. The world is a complicated place, and everyone does evil and is capable of doing good … Be careful about who you trust because no one is free from vice … Even myself.”
So … you’re saying I’m going to make mistakes, and that’s okay. I just need to do my best to live as best I can. That … actually does make me feel a little better, oddly…”
“Just like every person alive, you will make mistakes, and you will also do a lot of good; at some point in your future, you will have the desire to enact some terrible atrocious act of vengeance, which is not an if, but when, and how you handle that will affect the rest of your life. It was the same for an entire culture or a single person.
“We’ve already discussed the topic of whether people should be forced to live your personal creed or pay the consequences. Life is never fair, Sora, but it can be fun at times.”
Complicated … too complicated.
“Well, you’re coming upon the entrance. Have fun!”
Sora groaned as she scratched her ears.
“Something wrong?” Gurakuqi asked.
“No … just had some thoughts that are too sophisticated and entangled for the morning … my age. I shouldn’t be thinking about this kind of stuff, but life was never fair.” She mumbled, forcing a chuckle as she looked upon the entrance. “You ready, Ashley?”
Ashley’s lips were tucked under as she shook her head, voice a squeak, “No—not really … but you’re right; life was never fair.”
Taking a deep breath, they went inside.
I still remember being so obsessed with this.
So damn obsessed. It wasn't that great in hindsight, but it was really nice at the time.
Nowadays I started to learn korean so much that I didn't do anything else for days because I was, and partly still am, so obsessed with KPop. Now I am, again, too lazy to study more korean.
I'm going back to those wishes I had before revising my thinking. Those thought full of envy and hate. I'm more comfortable like that, I think.
Though I know nothing will change.
And now that I've written this down, I already don't know the reason why I wrote this anymore.
Thanks for the chapter.
I'm glad you found it enjoyable when you did and it helped you through a rough time. =)) Glad you're doing better.
@AuthorSME Oh I still enjoy it a lot. Please keep writing for a long time :P.
To paste over a conversation from RR that I had to help answer any questions others might have. =))
Indeed, thank you for showing that wiki link. I checked out some of the sources, and some are bogus, but some are good. Every person there had many reasons to do what they did, good and bad, I state in the chapter that none of them were good. Yes, it seems there are four letters that indicate that Amherst might have wished to use blankets to harm the Native Americans, but it was also never seen to be acted upon. The Native Americans did terrible things, the English did terrible things ... it's human nature at work.
The actual act of Viral Warfare is a terrible thing that harms even the users, which is one reason it has been banned. If you add poison, then sure, we can go back a long, long time, but actually using viruses as weapons is mostly hearsay, and a lot of the sources listed are more hearsay.
Christianism isn't the only religion that went out converting either; cultures have enforced their beliefs throughout antiquity. Name a belief, it's had bad crap attributed to it, religious or scientific-based. It's humanity at the core. Smallpox was a problem for everyone ... that's why we came up with a vaccine ... everyone gets hit by it. It's why it's classified as one of the most dangerous viruses. I'd be seriously shocked if any person that tried to use it as a weapon back then didn't contract it by being near the stuff.
History is filled with many terrible acts, usually committed by individuals, but groups get blamed. Were there many good Native Americans, religious people, and English? Yes. Were there many bad? Yes. We're all guilty of something. Still, I hear that Columbus infected Native Americans with smallpox and am like ... huh? It's the telephone game with no evidence. Also, writing about wanting to do something and there being no evidence that he actually did it are two different things, too.
Innocent until proven guilty was created for a reason.
The point of the chapter was to show that everyone has dirty hands, but still, good things can come about, even from the disaster of both sides doing terrible things. It's not so black and white.
You really do like "it's not so black and white". And, actually, I've come to like that expression too.
Thanks for the chapter.
The Native Americans lived on your continent for millennia, and they had yet to advance as a society in the least .
America was one the last place to be settled by human and so had millennia less to develop than the rest of humanity and so was backward in a lot of thing especially since they were isolated of the area of spread of knowledge technology and idea between Europe China India Middle East etc . But even so saying that they had not advanced as a society is completely wrong Aztec has better city managing skill than the Europeans and the Inca had a amazing building skill and they are not the only one advancing .
“They hadn’t domesticate horses, learn how to use the wheel, and were a bloodthirsty warring people; they would cannibalize, scalp, and murder enemy villages with extreme prejudices. Rape women and girls in front of their parents; skin parents in front of children, and do all manner of savage things … much of the history you’re taught glosses over many facts.
There were no horse in America at the time of human settlement for them to be colonized. European were bloodthirsty and as warring if not more (since they’re the one that a literarily invaded the whole world) rape physical mutilation war crime and other « savage thing » were shared with the European and the rest of the world
“You have the colonizers that came in and saw such horrors, and being in a much more mellow society that had dispensed with many of these cruelties, took a stand. Were they right or wrong?”
I wouldn’t say that the colonizer were from a more mellow society they had their own horror cruelties and savage thing . And the conquest of America wasn’t motivated by moral stand .
I guess it’s debatable, and relating it to us and what I’m worried about. She repressed a sigh. The settlers did bad stuff, too, though, right?
“Of course, nothing is ever one-sided; both sides shoulder blame. It’s like the Aztec and Inca; they had a ton of gold, but how did they get it? By brutalizing and enslaving others, conquering on their warpath, sacrificing to their blood gods, and here comes the Spanish, and they aren’t okay with that.
Aztec didn’t have a ton of gold that was more the Inca and it come from the big mine of gold and silver if the region than brutalizing people and enslaving other that the Spanish also did and the Spanish way to exploit those ressource was slavery as well . Human sacrifice was more of a Meso-American than Inca and the Gold of the New World will help Spain kill for their God in the religious war in Europe . And the Spanish were assurely not okay with the Inca and Aztec practice they weren’t okey with anybody as long as they weren’t catholic and preferably submissed to them . What the Aztec did matterd littlle to the spanish especially since their conquest was more a rogue and illegal move of Cortés than a expedition planes by the superior authority and was motivated by the Greed and Ambition of Cortés and his men
“Four-hundred men taking over an entire empire? Impossible, but they had the support of the slaves that wished to rid themselves of their slave owners. Were they pure and righteous all the time? Of course not. Did they wish to help? Yes. There is so much more to stories than what you are normally told.”
Neither Cortés or Pizarro at the support of the slave they had the support of the local opposed to Inca and Aztec hegemony . The conquest of both empire weren’t some big slave revolt with popular support it was more a opportunist move from small player to kill the bigger one . And with the right condition absurd luck and some skill 400 hundred man taking over a Empire is possible . Did the Spanish wanted to help ? Assurely they to some extent wanted to spread Catholicism to the pagan heathen and save their soul but their main motivation was Ambition and Greed not saving the poor native from their evil overlord
Man, returning to this chapter, I realize I was too caught up in all the documentaries I was going through and college research papers during this point in my life. He-he-he, I got so crazy with it in Volume 3 of ATM. I decided to reframe and structure everything in the chapter to take out the entire segment.
As they say, the path to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't even think it was that well written looking back; thanks, Saurus. ^_^7
"They hadn't domesticate horses, learn how to use the wheel, and were a bloodthirsty warring people; they would cannibalize, scalp, and murder enemy villages with extreme prejudices. Rape women and girls in front of their parents; skin parents in front of children, and do all manner of savage things … much of the history you're taught glosses over many facts."
There's so much wrong with this. First off, north american horses went extinct long before the Americas where first settled. They couldn't tame horses. However, countries with applicable replacements used them, biggest example being the Inca using Lamas. Second point feeds into the first, they did have the wheel, however boats where better and more valuable. In many cases, it was faster to use a small boat like a cannue or a heard of lamas to transport goods. In fact, look at the largest empires in the pre-colonial America and we see a trend of them always having greater access to these resources. The Mississippian Culture dominated the Mississippi and Ohio River Vallies. The Aztecs had the great lakes of Tenochtitlan. The Inca had an advanced shipping a messaging system built out of relays.
To a greater point, the tribes weren't savages, they where basically as advanced as early-mid classical age Europe. There was ritualistic human sacrifice in certain empires, but that's all religions. What's the difference between the catholic idea of honorable poverty and death but a more advanced a drawn out version? Rape and female oppression was just as bad in Europe, try telling me a culture that enforces submissiveness and trading women between families as any better. In the old world women where rarely allowed any rights, you couldn't even rule without an excuse like a young male ruler you where supposedly substituting for.
I think you’re taking this a bit too seriously mate; there were bar people and tribes and less advanced tribes and people that were met all over the place that did all of the things I mentioned. Also, horses were in the Americas as of further evidence had been discussed, it’s an old myth that they didn’t. Bro, everyone was a bad guy in the past according to our current day morality; everyone was horrible man and woman. Everyone was a victim of a hard life that was unforgiving because life was insane and everyone was just trying to survive which is why we live in a such a high resource high-class world today. Even the poorest person now is better off than kings back then because we advanced. Everyone is savages of the past, including the Native Americans that largely did do horrible acts we would hate nowadays. Why are you trying to defend horrible things that are documented and these are all things I learned in school unless you have new research that just came out within the last five years.
@AuthorSME Around 12,000-9000 years ago there was a mass extinction of north american creatures. The north american hourse is included on that list.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagerman_horse
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haringtonhippus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestication_of_the_horse#Methods_of_domestication
In general, I don't know where or how you where toght but that's just factually incorrect. It's scientific fact they went extinct, it has been for 20 years and in the past five there's only been DNA and genome evidence to back it up.
In general, most parts of the world are still not good places to live for many a reason. I'm not trying to defend Indians, I'm saying Europe was just as bad if not worse in some regards. In fact, it's only in the past 200 years or so life has improved with things like good daily hygiene in most places. I'd argue the whole world still is a shithole, without global trade no high class country would have most of what makes it "high class". How much tea or coffee is actually grown yearly in the U.S.? Not much, in fact only Hawaii and California grow coffee or are really suitable, without modern shipping Hawaii might as well not be an option. Same goes for Sugar, Cocoa, Tea, and many other things people don't think about. I'm not ignorant to that, but that's no argument to devalue pre-colobian America in comparison to Europe. They where behind, but it's not because their savages but for a hell of a lot more complicated reasons then that. Some of which can be attributed to not having enough war, rather than too much. Most of them where really weak to war and had not developed sufficient military science before the europieans arrived.
@KatherineFtw I wouldn't count wikipedia as the most accurate of sources to site. I'd have to go with the more scientific sources and go with what I was taught in school.
https://indiancountrytoday.com/news/yes-world-there-were-horses-in-native-culture-before-the-settlers-came-JGqPrqLmZk-3ka-IBqNWiQ#:~:text=The%20original%20theory%20accepted%20by,of%20horses%20brought%20from%20overseas.
It's the same for the other sources you use. Life in general sucked and people sucked. No one was good, but people did do a few good things throughout history but also did a lot of bad. You do bad and good things. We all suck and are immoral (whatever our morals are for the day), and constantly shifting to suit our own subjective sense of reality. One wrong word and people throw their morals out of the window or conform to the mob.
@AuthorSME So.... Your counterargument is oral history via OPED, and essentially a guy that follows Gavin Menzies's idiotic idea that China colonized the new world 900 years before Europe.....
Let me just leave this here.
https://ahotcupofjoe.net/2019/07/pseudoarchaeological-claims-of-horses-in-the-americas/
@KatherineFtw Alright, let's see. I'll list a bunch of things you can look at to do your own research into the topic.
Actually, after looking through some of it I might have to reconsider my thoughts on the wheel. There are some interesting things being researched that I wasn't aware of and a re-examination of the American mammoth timeline.
Scientists are always discovering new information. I was looking into the inflaton field today, theorized by Einstein's equations, and how it could be responsible for why the universe is speeding up, not slowing down. Really interesting stuff!
This is just a bunch of fun/related/interesting things I've found.
Full-color image available at http://research.mayavase.com/kerrmaya_hires.php?vase=196.
2. Gordon F. Ekholm, "Wheeled Toys in Mexico," American Antiquity 11, no. 4 (1946): 224. See also Paul R. Cheesman, "The Wheel in Ancient America," BYU Studies 9, no. 2 (1969): 185–97.
3. See Richard A. Diehl and Margaret D. Mandeville, "Tula and Wheeled Animal Effigies in Mesoamerica," Antiquity 61, no. 232 (July 1987): 243.
4. Quote found at PrecolumbianWheels.com. This website is no longer active but was archived at http://archive.is/eJ2q as of July 23, 2015.
5. Ekholm, "Wheeled Toys in Mexico," 222.
6. Diehl and Mandeville, "Tula and Wheeled Animal Effigies in Mesoamerica," 240.
7. Diehl and Mandeville, "Tula and Wheeled Animal Effigies in Mesoamerica," 244.
8. Ekholm, "Wheeled Toys in Mexico," 226.
9. San Diego Zoo Global, "Tapirs, Tapirus spp.," May 2009, http://library.sandiegozoo.org/factsheets/tapir/tapir.htm.
10. Belize.com, "Belize Flag and National Symbols," http://www.belize.com/belize-flag.
11. "Status and Action Plan of Baird's Tapir," in Daniel M. Brooks, Richard E. Bodmer, and Sharon Matola, eds., Tapirs: Status Survey and Conservation Action Plan (Cambridge, U.K.: IUCN Publications Services, 1997), 30, available online at http://www.tapirback.com/tapirgal/iucn-ssc/tsg/action97/ap97-06.htm.
12. See Diego de Landa, Yucatan before and after the Conquest (New York: Dover Publications, 1978), 109.
13. See Tim W. Clark, "Some Petroglyphs from the Black Mesa Area of Cimarron County, Oklahoma," in Proceedings of the Oklahoma Academy of Science for 1967 (Norman: Oklahoma State University, 1967), 140.
14. See Frank Gilbert Roe, The Indian and the Horse (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1955), 134, 247.
15. See Clark Wissler, "The Influence of the Horse in the Development of Plains Culture," American Anthropologist 16 (1914): 10.
16. See Burpee's note in Antony Henday, "The Journal of Antony Hendry [Henday]," ed. Lawrence J. Burpee, Proceedings and Transactions of the Royal Society of Canada, 3d ser., sec. II (1907): 307–54.
17. Roe, Indian and the Horse, 69.
18. Roe, Indian and the Horse, 128; and Francis D. Haines, "Where Did the Plains Indians Get Their Horses?" American Anthropologist 40, no. 1 (1938): 116.
19. Herbert Eugene Bolton, Spanish Exploration in the Southwest, 1542–1706 (New York: n.p., 1916), 314–15, 324, 330–37.
20. Roe, Indian and the Horse, 83; and Wissler, "Influence of the Horse in the Development of Plains Culture," 2, 6.
21. George E. Hyde, "The Mystery of the Arikaras," North Dakota History 18 (1951): 190, 217.
22. Wissler, "Influence of the Horse in the Development of Plains Culture," 7.
23. Wissler, "Influence of the Horse in the Development of Plains Culture," 6.
24. D. E. Worcester, "The Spread of Spanish Horses in the Southwest," New Mexico Historical Review 19 (1944): 226.
25. See Wissler, "Influence of the Horse in the Development of Plains Culture," 10.
26. Robert Moorman Denhardt, The Horse of the Americas (Norman, Okla.: n.p., 1947), 87–92; see ch. 2.
27. J. Frank Dobie, Mody C. Boatright, and Harry H. Ransom, eds., Mustangs and Cow Horses (Austin: Texas Folk-Lore Society, 1940), 331.
28. John C. Ewers, "Were the Blackfoot Rich in Horses?" American Anthropologist 45 (1943): 603.
29. See Roe, Indian and the Horse, 33–34; and Thornton Chard, "Did the First Spanish Horses Landed in Florida and Carolina Leave Progeny?" American Anthropologist 42 (1940): 91–92.
30. See Roe, Indian and the Horse, 35, 42.
30. Jay F. Kirkpatrick and Patricia M. Fazio, "The Surprising History of America's Wild Horses," July 24, 2008, Live Science, http://www.livescience.com/9589-surprising-history-america-wild-horses.html.
31. Roe, Indian and the Horse, 52.
32. Morris Bishop, The Odyssey of Cabeza de Vaca (New York: n.p., 1933), 33, 38, 43.
33. Bishop, Odyssey of Cabeza de Vaca, 43–47, 50–52, 65.
34. Wissler, "Influence of the Horse in the Development of Plains Culture," 9–10.
35. Hernando de Soto, Narrative of the Career of Hernando de Soto, in the Conquest of Florida, 1539–1542, ed. by E. G. Bourne, 2 vols. (New York: n.p., 1922), 2:55; 1:142, 154.
36. Roe, Indian and the Horse, 39; and cited by Frank Dobie, The Mustangs (Boston: Little, Brown, and Company, 1952), 34.
37. Arthur S. Aiton, "Coronado's Muster Roll," American Historical Review 44, no. 3 (1938): 556–70, especially 557.
38. R. B. Cunninghame Graham, The Horses of the Conquest (London: Heinemann, 1930), 138.
39. Roe, Indian and the Horse, 51.
40. William H. Prescott, History of the Conquest of Mexico, 3 vols. (Philadelphia: David McKay, 1892), 1:249–50; Roe, Indian and the Horse, 50.
41. Prescott, History of the Conquest of Mexico, 1:250 n.
42. Prescott, History of the Conquest of Mexico, 3:136.
43. Bernal Díaz del Castillo, The Discovery and Conquest of Mexico, ed. Genaro García (n.p.: Farrar, Straus and Cudahy, 1956), 96.
44. Prescott, History of the Conquest of Mexico, 1:383; 2:323.
45. Prescott, History of the Conquest of Mexico, 1:397.
46. See Roe, Indian and the Horse, 146–47; Dobie, Mustangs, 97 n.
47. De Soto, Narrative of the Career of Hernando de Soto, 1:47–48; 2:7; Bishop, Odyssey of Cabeza de Vaca, 53.
48. Denhardt, Horse of the Americas, 103.
49. Roe, Indian and the Horse, 148–49; Dobie, Boatright, and Ransom, Mustangs and Cow Horses, 247.
50. Denhardt, Horse of the Americas, 51, 198.
51. Roe, Indian and the Horse, 149, 151.
52. Denhardt, Horse of the Americas, 197.
53. See Roe, Indian and the Horse, 135, 140–42, 144–49.
54. Madaline W. Nichols, "The Spanish Horse of the Pampas," American Anthropologist 41 (1939): 119–29, especially 127.
55. See Roe, Indian and the Horse, 46.
56. R. B. Cunninghame Graham, The Conquest of the River Plate (London: n.p., 1924), 121, 238–43, 267–73.
57. See Diane E. Wirth, A Challenge to the Critics (Bountiful, Utah: Horizon Publishers, 1986), 52–55.
58. Ted Brewerton to author, September 2012.
58. The Academy of Natural Sciences of Drexel University, "Ancient Horse (Equus cf. E. complicatus)," archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20120224183205/http:/www.ansp.org/museum/jefferson/otherFossils/equus.php; The Academy of Natural Sciences, "Ancient American Horses," archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20070205181807/http:/www.ansp.org/museum/leidy/paleo/equus.php.
59. Kentucky State Parks, "Big Bone Lick History," http://parks.ky.gov/parks/historicsites/big-bone-lick/history.aspx.
60. Richard Owen, Fossil Mammalia, part 1, no. 4, of The Zoology of the Voyage of H.M.S. Beagle, ed. Charles R. Darwin (London: Smith Elder, 1840), 108–9.
60. Kirkpatrick and Fazio, "Surprising History of America's Wild Horses."
61. Live Science Staff, "Mammoths Were Alive More Recently Than Thought," Live Science, December 15, 2009, http://www.livescience.com/9771-mammoths-alive-thought.html; Sebastian Zieler, "Mammoths Had More Time," University Post, University of Copenhagen, http://universitypost.dk/article/mammoths-had-more-time.
62. Bjorn Carey, "Humans May Have Wiped Out Wild Horses," Live Science, May 1, 2006, http://www.livescience.com/717-humans-wiped-wild-horses.html.
63. Henry C. Mercer, The Hill-Caves of Yucatan (Norman: University of Oklahoma Press, 1975), 40, 68–69, 170.
64. Mercer, Hill-Caves of Yucatan, 172n.
65. Simon Martin and Nikolai Grube, Chronicle of the Maya Kings and Queens (London: Thames and Hudson, 2000), 228.
66. Clayton E. Ray, "Pre-Columbian Horses from Yucatan," Journal of Mammalogy 38 (May 1957): 278.
67. Ray, "Pre-Columbian Horses from Yucatan," 278.
68. Peter J. Schmidt, "La Entrada del Hombre a la Peninsula de Yucatán," in Orígines del Hombre Americano, comp. Alba González Jácome (Mexico: Secretaria de Educación Pública, 1988), 254–55.
69. Schmidt, "La Entrada del Hombre a la Peninsula de Yucatán," 253.
70. "Horses," http://mormonthink.com/backup/horses.htm.
71. Steven E. Jones, "Were There Horses in the Americas before Columbus?" unpublished paper, 2012.
72. "History of the Curly Horse," Curly Horse Country, http://curlyhorsecountry.com/history_curlyhorses.htm.
73. International Museum of the Horse, "The American Bashkir Curly," http://www.imh.org/exhibits/online/american-bashkir-curly; Silver Storm Farm, "American Curly Horse," http://www.silverstormfarm.com/curly-horse-info.html; Charles Darwin, The Variation of Animals and Plants under Domestication, 2d ed., rev., 2 vols. (New York: D. Appleton, 1915), 2:189–90.
74. Department of Animal Science, Oklahoma State University, "Breeds of Livestock—Bashkir Curly Horse," February 4, 1997, http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/bashkircurly; S. Thomas, "The Curly Horse Identification Project of the CS Fund Conservancy (a Case Study)," in Genetic Conservation of Domestic Livestock, ed. Lawrence Alderson (Wallingford, Oxon: CAB International, on behalf of the Rare Breeds Survival Trust, 1990), 154–59.
75. See, for example, American Bashkir Curly Horse Registry, "The Curly Horse Breed," http://www.abcregistry.org/#/curly-horse-info/4553749478; Silver Storm Farm, "American Curly Horse."
@AuthorSME *Sigh* Ok, I'll look into it further.
Honestly, I'm mentally exhausted after today. Screw having no sleep and having to deal with screaming people. Can the system come sooner so I can remove the sleep debuffs and get a legal way to kick the sh*t out of something?
@KatherineFtw I'd love that, too! I'll probably revisit the chapter in time. I may end up just cutting a lot of it out in the first place and just going somewhere else entirely. There's so much about history and science we don't know ... so much from the last fifty years that has been found falsified or wrong, to begin with. I'm sure thirty years from now we'll be looking back at the things we 'thought' we knew as fact and laugh. Yet still, those old people that don't keep up with things will continue to believe the cultural norms they've grown up with.