I approached, and the middle aged knight turned to me with surprised eyes. When I got closer, he genuflected before me.
“Your highness.”
“Um, you may rise, knight.”
“Yes, your highness,” he said as she stood back up.
“W-What is your name?”
“Elson Metrial, your highness.”
“Sir Elson, what an honor it is to make your acquaintance.”
He looked quite confused as to why I approached him.
“Likewise, your highness.”
I walked towards the table where the beautiful daggers were placed. Okay, not exactly beautiful since they were somewhat plain. But they were daggers nonetheless.
“You’re training with daggers.”
“Yes… But I also use a sword.”
I smiled broadly.
“Of course, it is always better to have a secondary weapon, isn’t that right? Sir Elson?”
His eyes went wide for a moment, surprised by my words. Then he spoke again with a smile. He must be delighted by what I said.
“Indeed, your highness. If I lose the sword, I can use my daggers.”
“Not only daggers can be used on melee, you can also throw them at your enemies.”
“...Yes indeed.”
“Can I touch one?”
I asked him for permission to take a hold of one. I shouldn’t just take one, it was his weapons after all. Plus, this fits well with my character.
“Isn’t it dangerous, your highness? You might wound your fingers.”
“I will be careful.”
He shifted his eyes towards my brother. He must be worried about what would happen if I got hurt. And my brother had a big role in that worry of his.
“You have no need to worry about my brother. So may I?”
“... Very well. But please be careful.”
“Of course.”
I took a dagger by the handle. A sense of relief and comfort instantly came surging into me. I touched the blade with my other hand, gently stroking it.
Ah, daggers.
I felt much better than before the moment I got hold of the dagger. I felt safer, you might say. We were taught how to handle daggers, and I loved using them. The hardness of the blade was wonderful. The weight was satisfying.
The deadliness was amazing.
Now at the moment I was holding a dagger, I couldn’t be more comfortable. However, it was heavier than what I was used to. The muscles of this body were too low. However, something like this was still manageable.
I have experienced several weights in my lifetime. I could still execute someone with it. I could also throw it, but I expect accuracy will leave more to be desired. But I only need to adjust myself.
But how wonderful it was to hold a dagger. I was in bliss.
I raised my eyes and saw a few knights also practicing their daggers, and some were throwing them at some target. But they were way off the bullseye. How disappointing, they must still be novices in this department.
I returned my eyes to the dagger in my hand. I sort of wanted to throw it. Throwing it at a living corpse would be more satisfying, but of course I couldn’t do that. A target practice would suffice.
I held the blade of the dagger with my slender fingers on one hand. The weight was more than what I was used to, but it was fine. This was indeed manageable.
“Your highness, it’s dangerous to hold it there.”
I heard the concerned voice of Elson which I paid no heed to. I had a desire. Longing. Blood.
My whole life I have spilled blood. I may have wanted freedom, but executing was engraved deep into me. Taking the life of my enemies was what made my life.
Execution. Assassination. Murder.
I lived for that.
It was my purpose. I embraced it.
As I was lost in thought of my life, I tossed and flipped the dagger. It spun in the air, and as it descended, I caught it between my fingers by the flats. My fingers were unwounded, the blade was back to where they were.
“...Milady?”
“Your highness?”
Their calls brought me back to my senses. I turned my eyes towards them with wide eyes. Then I frantically returned my eyes to the dagger in my hand. Of course these were just acts of mine.
“Oh? Would you look at that, Sir Elson. I did it. What a lucky one.”
I said energetically towards him. He saw how I spun the dagger in the air along with Mera, but I just said it was a lucky shot.
“Milady. That was dangerous.”
Mera approached me as she took the dagger away from my hand and placed it back on the table. She checked my fingers for any damages.
“Are you hurt somewhere?”
“... No, I’m fine.”
“Thank goodness.”
Seeing how concerned everyone was for me, I’m terrified to think if I bled.
“You worry too much, Mera.”
“Um… getting wounded is bad, milady.”
I smiled. She looked quite adorable.
“Yes, wounds are bad to have, ah…” I turned to Elson. “Can I keep one?”
Elson froze, being unprepared hearing my question. Why would a princess like me want a dagger? Such a question might have appeared in his head.
“...Huh? Your highness… um, it’s…”
He looked hesitant to answer. Given it was a blade, it would be bad for a princess to keep one. But I also asked him, a princess, so his mind must be in a mess as to what and how to respond.
“It’s dangerous, milady. Not allowed.”
But it was Mera who firmly turned down my request.
I pouted with puffed cheeks. It was regretful that I wouldn’t be able to bring one. I guess that was to be expected. Should I ask help from my brother? No, from the way he treated me, he wouldn’t let me have one, everyone here was too protective towards me.
I was troubled on how to do this. I was more comfortable to have a weapon beside me.
What a headache.
I groaned inside. I was dispirited.
“Fine…”
The plan of stealing one sneakily came to mind, but I immediately dismissed it. I can’t trick anyone with this many people around, plus they were knights — fighters. I’ll be an idiot if I try to snatch one.
“At least let me try—-”
Nope. Bad idea.
“Nevermind.”
I was about to try throwing one at a target, but no. I might get a bullseye or closer. It would be weird they see me do that. I could try missing miserably on purpose. But where’s the satisfaction in that?
I’ll just come back to my room.
“Then… keep up the good work, dear knights. I’ll be cheering you on as you strive for greatness and strength.”
I said like a sweet young girl before walking away.
“I’ll be going. Let’s return, Mera.”
On the way, I noticed the eyes of the knights lit up after hearing my words, seemingly more motivated than before. But it appears that it was more effective towards the younger knights who were just about my age. Even so, that was fine, I imagine I still had some effect towards the older ones.
Looks like there is a need to add HEMA to your list of homework for research on this story.
Ok, about the whole "dagger as a back-up weapon" logic here. Actually, for Knights, spears were considered their primary weapon and swords were the back-up weapon. A dagger is a finishing weapon for armored enemies. The idea is that, if you are facing a fully armored opponent and you do not have a mace, axe, or war-pick (which are the preferred weapons against fully armored enemies,) then you would go at them with your sword in order to gain leverage on them and knock them to the ground. At that point, you would take out your dagger which, being a shorter weapon, has more "point control" (ability to control where the tip of the weapon goes,) and stick it in through the arm-pit, eye slits, or under the helmet at the neck. The so-called "chinks" in the armor.
Dagger throwing is not popular in armored combat cultures because doing so is pretty much useless. It only appears in un-armored combat cultures, the most famous of which is the Apache Indians. It is also a perfectly valid combat method modern-day though since we no longer wear armor. Ninja would throw their shuriken and kunais, but it was never meant to be something to land a killing shot with. Ninja throwing weapons are meant only as a nuisance or a distraction.
Also, throwing technique meant to be used in real combat does not hold the weapon by the blade. That's the method used in carnival tricks in which the knife thrower practices with a target that is always at an exact fixed distance. You cannot get proper blade control holding it like that because throwing from that position would cause the blade to flip end-over-end which requires the thrower to time the spin of the blade to the distance of the target. It's a technique that is 100% impossible unless the target is fixed.
The technique used for those trying to hit a target at any distance requires a specially designed throwing dagger that does not have a hilt and does not have a grip on the handle. Instead, it is made entirely from smooth metal, or the handle might be made of a polished and smooth wood and be very small compared to the handles of normal daggers. This allows the blade to leave the hand in a way that will eliminate all spin from the blade, and allow it to fly straight at the target.
(Again, yes, I have trained in this throwing technique. I cannot tell you how many hours of practice it takes just to get the blade end to consistently hit the target. I have not improved to the point where I can even think of aiming for the center of the target yet.)
Oh, also, I forgot one VERY important thing. It was actually common for all nobles to carry a dagger in those times. ESPECIALLY women. A princess would likely have a rather ornate dagger on her person at all times. It would probably not be well balanced for combat and have a focus on form over function, but it would be unthinkable for her to be without this weapon for self defense as a "chastity protector." (There is some debate as to whether the so-called "chastity protector" was meant for yourself or your attacker.)
Any noble over the age of 10 basically would have a dagger on them at all times. That is, unless they are serving as a maid. The maids might not be allowed to carry them due to trust reasons.
So, rather than the angle being gone with here, a more accurate angle for her frustrations with the dagger might be that she is extremely dissatisfied with the atrocious balance that her chastity protector has and wants a real dagger.
Also, throwing technique meant to be used in real combat does not hold the weapon by the blade. That's the method used in carnival tricks in which the knife thrower practices with a target that is always at an exact fixed distance
I agree on that, flipping the blade and holding it by the blade is more like what I would refer as flourishing. I always always imagine daggers being thrown straightly, not holding it from the blade and throwing it. Since throwing it from the blade in a tough situation seems to not make sense.
@Jemini whoah!
Well, that all depends on om what ear of armor we are talking about. If we are talking about the age of full plate then it would have been mass weapons, axes, hammers, maces, etc. the sword was just for show for the most part. What weapons were prominent all depended on the common armor being worn.
@Ravenbear It is true that armor and weaponry were in an arms-race against each other and weapons were forcing armor to evolve while, at the same time, the armor was also forcing the weapons to evolve.
That said, if we are talking from the beginning of the middle ages up until the invention of the gun, some kind of sword was always in use during that period. Even in the era of full plate that was able to protect at every joint, you still had the Estoc, which was basically a long needle on a hilt. These more rigid narrow swords that are designed only for thrusting and useless for cutting are actually designed to target the weak points on armor in order to still be effective despite the protection the armor provides.
The thing about maces and war hammers is that, yes, they work on even armored opponents. However, you're not just going to carry those things around. Those are battlefield weapons. These days people are becoming increasingly aware of the fact that the sword is not as effective a weapon as we used to think from how popularized it's image became. In fact, it's likely the weakest among the traditional medeival weapons. However, there's a reason the sword got so talked-up and mythologized in the first place. That's because period material talked up the sword and sword technique. That wouldn't have happened if it was just there for decoration.
The thing is, the sword DOES have exactly one INCREDIBLY powerful advantage over all other medieval weapons. That's the fact that you can sheath it and wear it on your waist. You don't have to carry it around by hand like you have to with most other weapons. This one advantage means you can always have your trusty sword on you and have it available for any situation that may come up. It's not the most powerful weapon, but it is the most reliable. That one fact accounts for it's popularity, and thus why it continued to doggedly evolve into the estoc in order to compensate for the improved armor even though a mace or war hammer would have been the better option.
@Jemini That was really informative, Jemini! Thank you~
I agree with everything you said I just wanted to add princess always carried a small knife to open her wrists in case she was captured so she wouldn't be violated and humiliate her country.
This is a holdover from the Roman Empire as it used to capture princesses and put them in public brothels in stocks to be used for free by anyone who entered the city. This was done completely humiliate an enemy often soldiers were released and freed if they would agree to stand in line to take a time with the former princess of their empire and loyalty oath. Yeah not politically correct history but it happened. It was actually why the stocks were designed that way. Wives and daughters of an opposing general or king or chieftain found themselves in a public brothel.
The only actual knife I've ever saw that could actually do damage weighted a half pound. It looked like a railway Spike. I know of what I speak because I had friends in s c a . And it was made to be thrown like a Dart. Like this https://youtu.be/baSul2DlG8g
No one seriously no knife thrown end over end. Additionally the best person in the world with a knife takes on a newbie with a sword the guy with the sword will win. It can act for defense it has reach it has leverage basically she is dead if she fights somebody with a sword and is using a knife again only works in ninja movies. A man with two months experience with a sword will take out someone with 20 years experience with a dagger. A pike or polem basically does the same thing to the poor bastard with a sword. However a close quarters you wanted a knife like if you were wrestling with someone. But yeah I spell almost always beats a sword unless it was like inside a building a cramped hallway. That's why 200 swords will only ever really used to take out pipes. It's a little bit like rock paper scissors. But seriously she can pick up the sword what she might not be able to do is use it with leverage. But they have to be white because of the square cube law basically if it was heavier than 3 lb .
That belong to a subgroup called s c a r the r stood for real as in they used real weapons. And they used to get some bad scars from throwing daggers but they did them no one ever died the swords wear always blunted. And the only other thing God object to is odds are good those swords the nights had with four non-mounted use so they would be marching with them meaning they would probably weigh less than half a pound. It could be big arguments on that I've seen swords that did way over 6 lbs that were 2h. But if you look at any decent museum replica .
https://www.museumreplicas.com/sword-of-baldur
This is the heaviest sword you would likely to see a night use it's a viking weapon and it only weighs 2 pounds!
And seriously every princess carried a blade even if it was just a small razor in their hair.
@dragondeathlord Eh, I can see a master with a knife getting past a sword... if they are dual-wielding and one of their knives is a parrying dagger.
They would also have to come in on the strong of the blade while they are chambering their strike. (Chambering strikes is a common newbie mistake. It refers to going into the ready position for some form of power strike. You learn how to remove that stuff from your form as you get better.)
They would also have to collect on the strong of the blade, so they will need to really advance on them close. However, that is a perfectly viable way in which a newbie with a sword can be taken down by a dagger master.
@Jemini Guy with ONE Dagger master skill vs one swordman 2 months Sword training. With the reach, it be still very tough and no real master Dagger user (Assasin) would do that fight willingly. To easy to die it might not be 100% but its not a fight I would pick willingly.
if they are dual-wielding and one of their knives is a parrying dagger would make a big difference. But we Both Know the sword Has the Way Bigger Edge. Sorry I had to do that pun!
A Sword in one hand and in the other hand a dagger buckler combo works geat using the buckler to hide the dagger.
But Personally, I like a small mace in my off-hand and a Kilij in the Main hand.
I Love the Kilij its cutting power is Beautiful.
When you said throw kunai, I thought you were about to destroy your credibility. I mean come on, who throws a tool used for digging as a weapon.
@Clingan1 Yeah, it's less using the kunai as a throwing weapon and more the ninja using the kunai as a shuriken. That sounds like it's just saying the same thing, until you learn that the definition of a shuriken is basically "throw whatever you think will work."
Star-shuriken were actually a minority, made by particularly industrious ninja who wanted something to up the chances of their throwing weapon sticking the hit, and they were mostly popularized in hollywood simply because the star-shuriken are easier to stick. In reality though, most ninja used nails with their heads clipped off as their shuriken. If they decided they wanted something a little more damaging, they might use particularly large nails or something the likes of a rail-road spike (although the ninja were pretty well in decline by the time real rail-roads and thus real rail-road spikes were around.)
If you look to a lot of modern-day "historical ninjutsu" practitioners (those who preserve the art for historical purposes,) the kind of shuriken they prefer is something called a bo-shuriken, which is basically a chunk of metal that looks like a thick pencil in both size and shape, but sharpened on both ends.
@Jemini It’s nice to see someone who actually knows this stuff for once, most people just take stuff they heard without fact checking and spread the misinformation. *cough**cough*Naruto*cough**cough*
@Clingan1 Funny thing about Naruto. While of course the whole portrayal of shuriken and that chakra magic stuff are obviously there more for entertainment value, their portrayal of Ninja clothing is actually the only source I've ever seen to get it even close to accurate in terms of what they'd wear for battle gear.
Kakashi in particular, but there's also a lot of others who dress the same as him. Basically talking them wearing navy blue (not black) combined with olive green, and wearing clothing that has a lot of deep pockets to stash all their gear. (The headband thing is, of course, BS.)
That said, that's only for combat gear, which is worn almost never by a proper ninja. They'd basically go in like that if they have absolutely no other way to infiltrate someplace and have resorted to just breaking and entering for the sake of an assassination.
Their preferred method is disguise. And, the whole mouth-covering mask thing is something Ninja only did because it was actually the popular fashion in Japan at the time. Literally. It wasn't just ninja. Common folk on the street would be wearing face-obscuring masks all the time in Japan at that time, so the Ninja just found it convenient. Dressing in all black, though, was not something ninja ever did. The modern day all-black ninja look came from Kabuki theater. That was how the stage-prop people dressed, and in Kabuki theater, dressing in all black with the face covered represented being "invisible."
Occasionally, a Kabuki theater skit would involve one of the characters being killed by a ninja. When this happened, they were killed by one of the "invisible" stage-prop people. That did not represent a ninja dressing in all black, that represented a ninja being invisible.
(Yeah, there's a LOT of things people get wrong left and right about ninja to the extent that there's literally more wrong out there than there is right at an almost 9 to 1 ratio.)
Actually, I have often wondered if the whole "combat maid" and "combat butler" trope may have been started based on the era where Japan's emperor started employing ninja as imperial guards. Their MO while acting as guards was to operate as serving staff with concealed weapons, and then whenever a threat appeared the maids, butlers, and grounds-keepers all of a sudden jumped out and proved themselves to be incredibly combat effective.
I mean, combat maids and combat butlers are a trope almost entirely out of Japan, so that makes it pretty hard to ignore the fact that combat serving staff literally did exist in Japan's history because of ninja. I've not found anything to positively confirm the connection, but the pieces do line up a little too well on this one.
@Jemini I agree except it something happened all over the world. Servants Trained to Protect their Lord and pass as normal servants and double as bodyguards is just a good idea. In fiction Bruce Wayne's Alfred. Richie Rich's Irona (a Terminator) .
@Jemini the combat maid/ butler is most prevalent in Japan so I think they took the popularity of European servants.
No Knights would not use Spears, but Lances and that only on horseback. Knights would under normal circumstances fight on horseback, as the armor is very heavy and hinders movements and reduces the stamina.
IT is really uncomfortable to use a Spear on horseback so knights would use Lances instead.
@von_Karlsberg sorry not even close to historical accuracy. It's Just wrong. Polearms and Halberd wear the weapons of choice as a real functional Weapon. Check out Skallagrim on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTbVzx3PYcg
@von_Karlsberg Also not even close in terms of the armor. The armor weighed about 50 pounds, but that weight is evenly distributed over the body and is actually quite easy to move in and only places a burden on stamina in terms of long marches. You can even do ukemi and other gymnastics in full armor, and properly fitted platemale will not even hinder you if you decide to go rock climbing in it.
Knights would fight on foot on a fairly regular basis and were well versed in various forms of footman combat in addition to mounted combat. That was the entire point of swords, after all. You don't use a sword from horseback. These rumors about the armor being impossible to move in and having to be lifted onto the horse and such are spawned from reenactors wearing improperly fitted armor, or people who hear the word "50 pounds" and balk as they picture what it would be like to have a 50 lb backpack on all day, not considering that armor which evenly distributes the weight over the body is very different from a backpack.
Also, a lance is just a spear designed with a breaking point so the head of the lance will snap off after you impale someone with it so it doesn't unhorse you. This whole bit about a spear being "uncomfortable to use from a horse" is complete BS.
EDIT: (I am actually speaking from experience on this one in terms of the armor stuff. I put on a chain hauberk once that was so heavy that I needed help just lifting it over my head in order to get it on. But, once I was wearing it, it didn't feel much different from just wearing a thick jacket. That wasn't even properly fitted, but it did not hinder my movements at all. Honestly, it felt like the thick sweater I was wearing in order to protect my skin from the chain rubbing against it did more to inhibit my movements than the armor. I have also seen videos of people doing all manner of gymnastics in full plate.)
@Jemini All I can Add is YEP! And saw a guy in Full Plate do a Backflip and cartwheel!
@Jemini Armor was for most knights inherited. Not many knights could buy a new set perfectly fitted for them.
Falling from a horse is not comfortable And all in is a lance still somthing different from a Spear. Even more so if you Look AT the amount of Training you need.
Chain hauberk is somthing differnt from a Fall Set of plate armer. And normaler you war somthing under the hauberk weich I Donut know the english Name for.
@Jemini And What I forgot, yes knights were well versed in football combat, but that was not task in a battle. They were more dangerous on horseback And IT was expected of them to own a horse. What you mean were armored footmen weich were designated as men at arms.
@von_Karlsberg Beings the framing of this discussion is around the historical accuracy of equipment, not knights, the mere mention of men at arms completely defeats your argument. Call them a knight or call them a man-at-arms. It doesn't matter. What matters is that they are wearing armor and they are using it in foot combat. This is a point toward the statement that armor is not as hindering or cumbersome as you are framing it to be.
Also, yes. Chain is different from plate. Plate is significantly less cumbersome than chain. In fact, the most movement-inhibiting thing about full armor is the fact that you will be wearing chain under the plate, so my wearing a chain hauberk means I was wearing the single most cumbersome thing in a normal set of full armor, and it didn't give me much of an issue at all.
EDIT: Also, we both know you have no clue what the actual difference between a lance and a spear are. If you knew anything about them, you would have mentioned the snap-away head like I did. You wouldn't have gone with the far more vague "uncomfortable" term. You can wield a spear from horseback as easily as you could a lance, it will not be uncomfortable unless and until you stick it in a person. No more so than a lance, at least. I can agree falling from a horse really is uncomfortable, but the fact you used that language and the fact you're now trying to justify shows your lack of proper research into the subject. That's why I pointed it out. So, I ask you to actually do some proper research and know what you're talking about if you want to discuss medieval weapons and armor.
@Jemini Sorry that English is not my native language And that I have to fight my autocorrection.
And the breaking Part is not the only Thing differnt from a Spear. Thre a several small Differences.
And we discussed about knights. And Knights fought mostly on horseback. Meanwhile men at Arms fought only in theory in Full plate armor. Because of the Costs most did not have a Full set And in General was the armor of footman much lighter than of the armor of knights.
And the hauberk alone is not restriktive as the Full Set. I from Personal experience I can Tell you that There is a BIG Differences.
I only have Studied history And now work With the Real deal And not some wanna be modern recreations.
@von_Karlsberg Right. I also got focused in on what I was talking about and forgot entirely that I myself even dropped the word "knight" in the original post of this thread. So, it makes sense you would focus in on the idea of knights when the rest of this thread was more about weapons and that's the subject I was focused in on.
Yes, if we isolate this discussion to knights alone, they were primarily a mounted cavalry unit. This is because the knights were stinking rich, and actually had the monetary prowess necessary to maintain their equipment (which would include a horse.) A cavalry unit would also be more desirable on the battlefield up until archery combat became the norm and the horse could be shot out from under them. This forced combat to evolve away from cavalry combat.
But, yeah. During the cavalry combat days, a knight's preferred weapon would have been a lance. My point in the OP was that daggers were very much NOT a primary weapon or even a secondary weapon. Pole-arms were the primary weapon, swords were the secondary weapon. The primary function of the dagger was for finishing a downed armored opponent, and were almost never drawn unless and until such a situation was presented to you. That said, they were so important for that function that it was unthinkable for anyone of means on the battlefield to be without a dagger.
@Jemini I can only add that if Consider that medieval armes were mostly compromised out of (armed) Peasants the dagger ist a secondary weapon you can Throw or use When a knights looses his horse and or sword. For the Story is the primary weapon and the lance just a one time use weapon live some anti Tank weapons.
@von_Karlsberg It’s been two months, why are you blowing up my notifications
a thrown knife is basically entirely unable to peirce hardened steel armor, and at a range where it would be good to throw one, could be dodged somewhat easily. (though, due to the low damage, it may be worth considering blocking, even with unprotected arms, in order to advance on the now unarmed opponent) additionally, daggers used in history were quite long compared to most knives today. not the best for throwing accurately at range. im a bit late though, aren't it?
@GoldMJO If you look at the Apachi, a culture that actually practiced knife throwing for warfare, they usually had a minimum of 20 knives on them for throwing purposes. A person who uses throwing knives is not disarmed just because they threw one of their knives at you. Also, the throwing knife was not their primary weapon. The purpose with the Apachi, just as it would have been with the Ninja, is to throw off your reaction and force you to retreat or block so they can more easily target you with their primary weapon.
That said, the reason it's the Apachi who practiced throwing knives and not anyone from European or Asian cultures is quite specifically because the Native American battlefield culture was an un-armored combat culture. It's quite true, even basic armor can render a throwing knife effectively harmless. The real purpose of a dagger in armored combat is that you have more point control with it to stab in through the chinks in the armor, whereas unless you have a battlefield-grade blunt weapon, the rest of your armored combat would be focused on grappling and unfooting your opponent so that they are in a helpless position that will allow you to target them with your dagger.
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