Even though he had spent the last year in Saniya, Corco had never found the time to travel across the Verduic Sea. All that kingdom building had kept him busy. Now that he found himself with some time to appreciate the beauty around, everything seemed strangely familiar. Although it had been many years since he had last visited the waters to Medala's east, the old image in his mind created a perfect overlap with the present.
Before him stretched an endless sea of green. Strange as the water's color was, it was not unhealthy. To Corco's best guess, the entire Verduic Sea, tucked in between Chutwa and Yakuallpa and sprinkled with the Verdant Isles, had incredibly shallow depths for a body its size and was well fed from several warm water streams. As a result, almost the entire sea had conditions perfect for plant life to develop. Never would the forces of nature leave such a chance untaken, and so the sea was covered with algae and various microorganisms, to give the waters their outlandish sheen.
In the distance, large chunks of green jutted out of the waves, like the backs of enormous turtles. Even the lands had taken on he same colors as the water. After all, most of the Verdant Isles lay in tropical and subtropical zones. Their lush vegetation was what gave them their name, not the water around them.
As Corco looked to the distant islands, the ship below his feet gently rocked in the wind. After a while, he managed to tear his eyes away and to the large, square main sail of their vessel. Although he was fascinated by the uniqueness of the Verduic Sea, a kind of sight the other self in his memory was not familiar with, for now there were more practical inquiries to be made.
“So you're only going with one sail?” he looked over to the young verdant prince. Even though winter was upon them, Wacoca wore a short, sleeveless vest, like all the sailors of the Verdant Isles. This way, they could show off their tattoos, not unlike the ones the warriors of southern Medala wore.
“There is a stern sail for mobility, but it is small. We also employ oars if we have to, but most of our navigation is done with the currents. The Verduic Sea is complex and treacherous. We need to remain flexible.” The verdant prince stared at the island group ahead.
“Wait, 'navigate by the currents'? How does that even work?” Corco raised an eyebrow. Already the trip felt like it had been worth it. They hadn't left for even an entire day and he had already learned two new things.
“Maybe one day I can show you the keel of one of our ships. I am sure a smart man like you will understand.” Wacoca smirked. Although Corco had a few ideas about the design of his host's keels, he would still take any chance to learn something new. For now, he would take what he could get.
“Even if your ships are designed for it, to navigate along the currents still takes crazy understanding of the region, right?”
“Of course.” Pride entered Wacoca's voice as he spoke of the achievements of his people. “Just like the Yaku navigate by the stars, the Verdant Folk navigate by the waves. You see, we-”
“I'm dooone!” Drawn by the piercing voice, both Corco and Wacoca turned around. Rather than face the gentle waves, they were confronted by an oncoming storm. Princess Sumaci rushed towards them, a book bound in the south's new style in her hand. Although her patterned silk dress represented the newest style of fashion from Saniya, she stomped towards them on broad legs, surefoot atop the swaying planks.
“What is this garbage?” she shouted and waved the book towards Corco, who could feel his eye twitch the tiniest bit. No doubt did his eyes anticipate another barrage of questions.
“What kind of question might Princess Sumaci be having?” he asked with a strained smile. Really, he would have taken her words with far more calm if it had been the first time she did this.
“The stuff you've written down here is nonsense, isn't it? 'We can't know anything'? How does that make any sense? Who would be satisfied with a lazy answer like this?” Whether her frustration was played or real, Sumaci threw the book to the ground to reinforce her point.
“Our understanding of the world is limited by our perception of the world, our perception is limited by our perspective. To me, that seems self-evident. But like that, we can't ever get the full picture, can we? Because we only ever have one perspective?” While he looked at his warrior servant scramble to save the precious tome of knowledge from the waves and Sumaci's wrath, Corco replied in his lecturer tone.
“So to you, there's nothing that will always hold true, no universal truth?” Sumaci narrowed her eyes. “How can that be right? How come people are the same all over the place? Father has been all the way to Enaya. He's met all kinds of folks all over the world, but they are no different from us, by and large. How come there is a common thread that connects all people if they all have a different perspective.”
“You're not wrong. But that common thread is only logic, and with only one system of logic, our perspective is still limited.”
“So then logic is a universal truth. There you go.” Sumaci clapped her hands together, convinced she had trapped Corco in her words for once. Meanwhile, the teacher pinched the bridge of his nose. This was exhausting.
“No, but... wait... Logic is a tautological system. It's self-recursive, if you know what I mean. Which means it can't be proven. It can't be the proof of anything, so it can't provide any truth on its own. It's just how our minds make sense of the world, so it's just part of our perception as well. You can't possibly know that logic actually reflects the real world in any way, because we can't test for that without using logic again. So why couldn't there be a type of logic completely alien from our own, yet just as true, or even truer?”
“Right, that makes sense,” the princess mumbled as she lowered her head. Though she might have looked like a deflated student, Corco knew she only thought of more ways he could be wrong. Almost on reflex, Corco took a deep breath. Though just as he thought the storm had faded for now, it got a second wind. Her face shot up, to stare straight into Corco's eyes. “No, wait! I got it! Why would other perspectives matter? Our world is just what we see anyways, isn't it? We're not looking for any answers on the world beyond what we can see and feel, right? So our logic would be all there is, because nothing else will appear in our world. That makes it a universal truth, at least within our system.”
“But... that's not what universal means.” He really wanted to cry.
“You said we're always limited to our own perspectives. Now you're just splitting hairs, aren't you?”
“No, but...” For a moment, Corco was stumped, trying to explain the limits of human knowledge to the princess. Ever since she had started to learn at his school in Saniya, she had asked these kinds of difficult questions of her teachers. At first it was still okay, since she only asked a few more questions than her classmates. However, Sumaci was far too quick a learner. By now her questions had a level of tricky that made Corco struggle. Even worse, the girl seemed to revel in her attempts to make him speechless. Ever since he had received his new memories, the king had never struggled to answer questions, never had his answers challenged. Frankly, he wasn't used to it. So rather than answer the tricky question, Corco sighed and explained his stance instead.
“Look, I just feel we're far too arrogant. Your assumption is, as far as I can tell: We can learn a fundamental truth about the world. I think that's an unreasonable claim, from an objective perspective.”
“You're just a pessimist, you just don't believe in the power of people. Just look at how much we have achieved, how much we have become masters of the world around us. How could we have done this if a true, deep understanding of the world did not rest within us?”
“I agree with Lady Sumaci.” At some point during Sumaci's barrage, Mayu had emerged from the lower deck and joined their group. “You tend to be very negative about these things, cousin. Really, you should consider the impact your attitude has on your people, even more so as a king.”
Annoyed by his cousin's nonsense, Corco returned a dry look. Somehow, he already knew where this was going.
“On the other hand, Lady Sumaci should be more careful with her words. After all, King Corco is a veritable lord now, and cannot be addressed so casually. This governor would much prefer if Lady Sumaci addressed me first, as a go-between. Many of Lady Sumaci's questions can be answered that way, and we do not need to take cousin's valuable time.”
Although his cousin supported Corco on the surface, Mayu stood shoulder to shoulder with Sumaci, and looked at Corco the entire time he 'chided' the girl in a soft voice. More than anything, it seemed like his cousin was determined to keep the princess away from Corco.
“Look, Mayu, I'm really glad you came along to help in the negotiations, but on this issue, you frankly have no idea what you're talking about.” Corco really didn't have the mind for Mayu's politics, or some romance drama.
“Of course I do. We were talking about your negative attitude to the future of the empire, did we not?”
Proud as Pacha, Mayu stretched his spine towards the main sail. Meanwhile, Corco shared a smirk with Sumaci as Wacoca shook his head, a signal Mayu promptly overlooked.
“Anyways, I'm glad you came along to help as a go-between during the talks,” the king slapped Mayu's shoulder. “It's good to have someone who's already been there and knows the local customs and culture.” In the end, Corco decided to change topics and spare his cousin the embarrassment. They'd have to get along, at least until Pacha's siege would be lifted.
“After all, this governor is even familiar with the great King Hulpatec. Who else could take responsibility for this vital task? Even further, the King of the South is my cousin. As relatives, and as men of the south, we need to combine our forces to resist the invasion of outsiders. What else could family be for?”
Although Corco doubted Mayu's commitment to the family name, he really didn't care to expose is cousin on this. Thus the atmosphere turned a bit awkward, until Wacoca decided to bring salvation.
“There should be no need to worry about tricky negotiations. I am sure father will be more than receptive to your offer, King Corco. After all, we are all men of Pacha. In the face of these invaders from the east, it is our duty to protect out faith.”
“True, the actions of the north, the blatant attempt to introduce the arcavian heresy, will only anger the Divines! Do they intend to sink all of Yakuallpa under the wrath of the Heavens?” Mayu added with a shiver in his voice, from anger or fear. For once, he seemed truthful in his words.
Although Corco was far less confident about any of this than his traveling companions, he retained a shallow smile. Over the past years, he had gotten much better at pretend politician play. If he didn't stop soon, he might turn into a real one, his worst nightmare.
“Well, let's see how it goes,” he said before he turned to Sumaci. “As for your questions: This might not be the greatest place to talk about complex issues like these. I'll put together a proper, structured response and then we can revisit the issue with some time and space on our hands.”
“...because you can't come up with an answer,” the princess mumbled.
“I said we can deal with it later. You do realize that I'm trying to end our argument on a positive note, right?” Corco was baffled. How could this girl be so phenomenally stubborn?
“But our people have achieved such greatness in our battle with nature. Just look at our beautiful home!”
While Corco, Sumaci and Mayu had all been stubborn in their own right, Wacoca had brought their ship close enough to the islands that they were now among them. From up close, the Verdant Isles looked even more impressive than they had from a distance. Somehow, the tiny island to their portside was covered over and over in trees and shrubs. Throughout the forest, sturdy tarps had been bound to the tree trunks. Beneath them, bronze-skinned Verdant Folk sat to work, eat, sleep or play. With only a little bit of tarp and some fences to create borders, the space had been turned into a giant, communal home. Some ways away, the forest had been cut away, to make room for rows upon rows of farms. At the edge of the clearing, the king could see an elephant, led by its rider, rip out a giant stump with the support of another dozen workers.
Croco had to agree with Sumaci: In their own way, the Verdant Folk had managed to take command of the forces of nature. Already, the king itched to find out more about their way of life. Still, based on cold, hard facts, the girl was wrong. In time, he would make her understand the deeper complexities of logic and empiricism. However, he would never lose sight of his goal, so for now he would not deal with the arrogant girl, or spend more time to learn new things from the Verdant Folk. After all, he hadn't come here as a tourist, he had come to get his hands on a new fleet.
And although the religious threat of Arcavia might not convince anyone but some naive youngsters, the belly of their ship had been loaded with more than enough arguments to guarantee safe negotiations. Plus, the Verdant Isles were only the first station of his journey. On his way back, he would pass this place again, to seal any deal he might be denied the first time around.
I feel like the best lesson on perspective would be the example of the shape of the world. Since Corco knows the world is spherical then it would be best way to explain the lesson. What we see is not all there is to see and what we know is not the limit of what exists.
Another example could be the tides, while the verdant folk use it well, they don’t know how the tides where created.
@Tburla Using a concrete example for the lessons is definitely a good idea, would also make it more fun to read I think. Though the shape of the world is already known by most intellectuals in this world, so it wouldn't really be anything new.
I feel like Corco is learning from Roland in RTW, buying love with knowledge. XD
Love the chapter, helps me forget the imminent defeat looming in the future... Somewhere... ;P
:D I really like RTW actually, esp. the early chapters.
I wonder why you're expecting defeat. I haven't been that mean, have I?
Good read! Happy Holidays! I'd post this on a later chap but this is the one I'm up to.
:D Although it's belated, thank you and I hope you had happy holidays as well.
Glad you're having fun with my stuff!
It's like trying to explain a colour to a blind-born
Wait, but when he defended cathegorical principle, he clearly stated:"It's a perfectly logical method to define morality in an objective manner". Isn't it like, requires completely different presuppositions than his current stated beliefs? Morality is objective, logic is apparently too, but guess what, no they are not, logic is subjective and our perspective and knowledge are as well. Am I too stupid and ignorant to miss the lack of contradiction?
Well, I guess in the first quote I shouldn't have written 'objective'. Still, the basic principle isn't wrong. So long as everyone uses the same basic system of logic, the cathegorical imperative applies.
As for the ideas in this chapter, they are more along the lines of Descartes and Karl Popper and such, more modern thoughts about the scientific method (that nothing can be conclusively proven, that we can't prove the validity of our logic system).
Even then, the cathegorical imperative applies, since it's only based on a shared understanding of logic and a shared definition of 'society'... I hope I made myself clear? I'm actually not sure myself anymore.
@SociableHermit well, cathegorical imperative implies that you both can conceive the consequence of your act being an universal norm (which you can not) and inflict a change on the world big enough that your act will become a universal norm (which you... can not?). First is a thing that contradicts the belief in the limits of our understanding (or it is some other definition of universal law I do not understand) the second one implies that acting out your beliefs is the best way to make them commonly acceptable as the norm, which is not necesserialy the case.
@Pezt I think one of us is understanding the cathegorical imperative wrong? To my understanding (simplified a bit), a universal norm is anything without which a society would fall apart, a society being a group of equals. Logically, if everyone has to be equal, then no one can be treated above others, in a normative way. What follows from this necessarily is that killing destroys a society. So does stealing, so does slavery etc etc. Most everything we would intuitively consider a moral evil falls under this umbrella, and all you need to accept for it to work is my definition of 'society'.
I'm pretty sure I'm remembering Kant right, though I might be thinking of someone else.
@SociableHermit well, may be, I read him quite a time ago. Back when I was dark and edgy and liked Sartre.
To my understanding, it's "act in a way that would be best if everyone behaved in such a way". Unfortunately, it imples that if you act in certain way, others will see the light and you will not just be open to exploitation. A good foundation for laws, not so much for day-to-day function.
Also that assumption that everyone is equal, it's just wrong. Kant doesn't work with thorny moral dilemmas like "should you kill a thousand to save a million" and the like. Basically, as any absolutes, it chokes when tryes to go into a morally gray situations, which, sadly, is pretty much any situation.
@Pezt The 'equal' in kant wasn't some absolute norm, I don't think, more of a basic definition. How else would you define a society. If the people in a society don't live under the same rules definition becomes almost impossible after all.
I don't think it has problems with gray-areas? E.G. Kant is fine with lies if they benefit a person, but not if they do harm. I'm not aware of any examples to the contrary, though I'm sure there are some (there always are in moral philosophy)
And yeah, it's not really that useful for day-to-day since it's too heady, but it's a great method to structure a legal system around I think.
@SociableHermit what about a zero sum game? E.g. either you harm or you die?
"The 'equal' in kant wasn't some absolute norm, I don't think, more of a basic definition."
I am pretty sure it is an absolute norm. Because if people are not equal, than you can aply imperative sparingly - i.e. I can't lie to my peers, but peasants are a fair game, because they don't trust anything I say anyway. Also some of his "contradictions" rely on his goodnaturedness. For example - you can't lie because if everyone lied society would've crumbled is a contradiction only if you don't believe that trust is a waste of thought-space or that society and laws ARE lies, that we all keep up for our benefit. In second case it becomes the point that if we don't lie, society will crumble. Scary shit.
@Pezt An absolute norm would be 'all men shall be equal'
That's not what Kant says though. He only says, that a society is a group of equals. As such, everyone in a society has to be equal, or it wouldn't be a society, but something else. That's not normative, it's tautological.
I addressed your point on lies already. If the lie is beneficial, like the lie that paper money has a greater value than its material, it is not morally wrong because no one in society is harmed by it any more than anyone else.
From everything I've read of Kant, calling him 'goodnatured' or relaint on norms is pretty far off the mark. Kant was precise, rigorous and logical in his approach to philosophy.
@SociableHermit I will admit, I'll have to reread Kant now...